TheSamba.com :: View topic - How many "GREEN" people are on this forum?

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:00 pm

droogvan wrote: Hemp was widely used for ethanol during WWII it still seems like an obvious choice to me. It can generally thrive without the use of pesticides or herbicides and can be grown on land where corn might not take. There's always the argument that someone could grow marijuana in with a hemp field but its my understanding that this is BS. I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.

I'm not sure how I feel about ruining the marijuana crop though... I've got to think about this and get back to you guys. :lol:

You would want to go to seed,more oil produced, nasty headache. Read Jack Herer's book "The emperor wears no clothes"

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:02 pm

Green people?
Vanagon, Vanagon

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Hemp won't get you high.

But Vanagon will!!!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:07 pm

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:10 pm

Now this is just getting silly (Vanagon)

I think I'll stop now.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:31 pm

droogvan wrote: .... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.

Without going into detail, I can confirm this for you.
Btw, VANAGON!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:43 pm

levi wrote: droogvan wrote: .... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.

Without going into detail, I can confirm this for you.
Btw, VANAGON! Pollen can even come in on your clothes and fingers____Woops
Sgt. Shultz " I know nothing, I see nothingg"

Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:18 pm

There's hope guys.
http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2008/01/ethanol23

Even Dogpilot can fly green.
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-02/pl_motor

Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:17 pm

Perhaps we should rename this thread Reefer madness - but then all the Dometic fans would be up in arms ...
But really ... back to ethanol - this link has some pretty good info on ethanol and of particular interest should be the section on the direction of producing ethanol from cellulose - i.e. non food material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
Also of note is that the production of ethanol using sugar beets as feedstock rather than corn is far more energy effective.

Think of it - producing sugar beets to make ethanol, the waste pulp is composted and heated by the methane that the composting material produces which also provides the energy for the ethanol prodection. The composted beet matter is spread back on the fields rather than chemical fertilizers.

It used to be said that when farmers butcher a pig that they used all of it except the squeal.

Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil?

good article, lots of charts and graphs
http://www.distill.com/World-Fuel-Ethanol-A&O-2004.html

The inviting aspect of ethanol, and biodiesel, is that they use current stored solar energy (in the form of plant material) rather than depleting a finite reservoir of ancient solar energy.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:24 am

J Charlton wrote:
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil?

Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:54 pm

allsierra123 wrote: Just curious how many DIY greenies are here? Do you frequent any forums geared towards green living?
I guess I'd qualify...

My partner and I grow some of our own food, and plan to grow most of it within the next couple of years. Getting dairy goats next month, too, and we do strictly organic, semi-biodynamic outdoor growing. During the growing season, we get most of of our purchased food from a family farm CSA a few miles down the road.

We buy everything we can in bulk, and our monthly garbage run consists of just a couple of small shopping bags + a bunch of recycling. We use solar to charge our consumer electronic items, we compost, and heat our home with slashpile wood (stuff that the loggers would just burn up in a big bonfire to clear for replanting.)

We do our home renovations using almost entirely recycled materials (building a goat stable out of shipping pallets now) and don't own a TV or air conditioner. We use few chemicals (a little bleach to sterilize homebrew equipment) and only the toilet goes to the septic tank, the rest goes to a graywater system that feeds some shade trees.

We buy very few new things, choosing instead to browse thrift shops and get books/videos from the library.

There's a lot more but this is getting boring, eh?

Anyway, balancing all this goodness is the fact that her car is a 74 Super Beetle, and I have an 85 Vanagon, 76 Dodge pickup (short trips for firewood etc), and a 73 Suzuki 2-stroke motorcycle...and we live fifteen miles from the supermarket, and 20 miles from town. So all that 'green living' stuff we do is partly just compensating for our smoggy vehicles. (but I only go to town once a week or so, usually carpooling with my partner when she has a class to attend)

Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:03 pm

droogvan wrote: .... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.

No, it would not affect the THC content of the current crop AT ALL. Seeds resulting from this pollination would be affected, but growing pot from seed is pretty much confined to indoor breeding programs and 3rd world outdoor cultivation. Cross-pollination like this would only be a direct problem for crops where the seed is the desired part, such as corn...grow different types of corn too close together and you end up with sort of a mess.

Or so I've heard.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:08 pm

GeorgeL wrote: J Charlton wrote:
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil?

Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85.

Nevertheless, the ethanol that is produced will replace some of the previously imported oil and as the supply of it increases through the econonical processing of celulose to ethanol more and more of our energy requirements will be met with domestic sustainable production. One of the most important issues that we have to address is not only our dependance on fossil oil but also our dependance on the supply of it from feudal despotic regimes with little or no respect for human rights. Maybe we should call it "blood oil".

Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:42 pm

J Charlton wrote: GeorgeL wrote: J Charlton wrote:
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil?

Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85.

Nevertheless, the ethanol that is produced will replace some of the previously imported oil and as the supply of it increases through the econonical processing of celulose to ethanol more and more of our energy requirements will be met with domestic sustainable production. One of the most important issues that we have to address is not only our dependance on fossil oil but also our dependance on the supply of it from feudal despotic regimes with little or no respect for human rights. Maybe we should call it "blood oil".

Yes, let's come up with an emotional term to encourage the imposition of our system of values on foreigners. Oh, that's what we did in Iraq... :oops:

It doesn't pencil out when you use 1100J of petroleum to produce 1000J of biofuel, no matter if the source of the biofuel is food or non-food. There is still a net loss of the energy equation.

Cellulose conversion to ethanol is still experimental. Yes, research money should be pumped into that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should be paying Big Agriculture bonus money for conventional corn-based ethanol.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:53 pm

A neat little video
http://www.storyofstuff.com/

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:14 pm

flyingCoyote wrote: droogvan wrote: .... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.

No, it would not affect the THC content of the current crop AT ALL. Or so I've heard.
Not true. Content continues to rise throughout the 8-20 weeks of florescence (depending on varietal), which would be immediately terminated with the mass pollination, as it switches to seed development. Of course you would have to go with a 12-20 week florescence varietal to try to come close to blending in with the physical characteristics of the hemp, as far as leaf color and shape, branching characteristics, and especially internodal length.
Not that I was involved in any way with that industries development through the '70s and '80s, nor was I hired by folks to design and set up large indoor and (literally) underground operations during that time. It's just something I happened to hear on the radio while driving my VANAGON.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:18 pm

Dude, that was my skull!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:38 pm

mightyart wrote: Dude, that was my skull!

I NEVER looked anything like that...... I didn't like buttons. Not that kind.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm

Ok, how bout this?