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Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:20 pm

I have franklins 4" narrowed adjustable ball joint front beam w/ his drop spindles on my '73. I have been tossing around wanting to change my lug pattern (preferably to 5x205). Although I am not interested in a whole new brake set up if I don’t have to, because I already rebuilt my calipers and replaced pads, rotor, hoses and drums. Is there any way of changing out hubs or redrilling rotors/drums without using an adapter? Clearance is key and I don’t think I can afford the 1/2" increase in track in the rear.

Any help would be great! Thanks!

Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:33 pm

Remove a front wheel, the 5 x 112, and stand the 5 x 205 in its place.

LOOK thru the big hole. The hub fits in the big hole of the wheel!

Now figure a way to drill and tap AIR.

Unless you want to drill and tap the rotor where the brake pads run......

Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:36 pm

There are plenty of kits that utilize differant drums and discs
similer to any wide 5 disc braking system. Like these!

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1140 or

Thanks for the well thought out answer though!
Open your mind and think.....
Spindels, hubs, and other drums/discs can be utilized to make this work! I have heard of guys using 1/2 of the bay spindel and 1/2 of a Porshe spindel to make a swap to a Porshe pattern. I also know that there are other ways to make this work! I was just tring to get some insight as to what others may be thinking or doing!

Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:45 pm

The only VW's that come with have fives have drums so unless you are prepared to cough up for one of those kits or convert your fronts to drums you are SOL, there's no combination of stock parts that suit your needs.

Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:46 pm

P.Stratton wrote: There are plenty of kits that utilize differant drums and discs
similer to any wide 5 disc braking system. Like these!

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1140 or

Thanks for the well thought out answer though!
Open your mind and think.....
Spindels, hubs, and other drums/discs can be utilized to make this work! I have heard of guys using 1/2 of the bay spindel and 1/2 of a Porshe spindel to make a swap to a Porshe pattern. I also know that there are other ways to make this work! I was just tring to get some insight as to what others may be thinking or doing!

Open your mind and eyes and READ what you wrote in your first post:

"Although I am not interested in a whole new brake set up if I don’t have to, because I already rebuilt my calipers and replaced pads, rotor, hoses and drums. Is there any way of changing out hubs or redrilling rotors/drums without using an adapter?"

I answered your question using your info. YOU said you don't want to change your brake set-up......

I will answer it again: you cannot put 5 x 205 wheels on 71 and bus disc brakes and hubs.

Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:33 pm

ACTUALLY, going from the small 5x112 to the larger (in air) 5x205 is no more difficult then the beetle adapters for 4x130 to 5x205

Karl wrote:
I will answer it again: you cannot put 5 x 205 wheels on 71 and bus disc brakes and hubs.

jogging my memory I'm pretty sure I've seen ads in my older HVWs for Wolfgang International

and a search on their website offered..

Wheel Adapters $87.95/pr
We make wheel adapters for some of the more common
5-112 to 5-205 Steel (pr) T2,71-; OR (2501602)

Quote: Wheel Adapters
We make wheel adapters for some of the more common drums and wheels. A lot of people think that wheel adapters are weak and you will have problems. Well, that's only partially true. The truth is, if you go from a small pattern drum to a large pattern wheel, or a small pattern drum to a small pattern wheel, then the adapter is flat and is as strong as the drum or stronger. But if you go from a large pattern drum to a small pattern wheel, the adapters are weaker, because they have to flower out and we don't recommend those. Wheel adapters are sold in pairs. (4-130 pattern, Bug 68 -) (5-205 pattern, Bug -67) (5-130 pattern, Porsche) (5-112 pattern, Bus 71-). The first number is your drum or rotor and the second number is your wheel

Stolen image http://www.wolfgangint.com/images/PartsPix/1501606.jpg

Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:24 pm

danfromsyr wrote: ACTUALLY, going from the small 5x112 to the larger (in air) 5x205 is no more difficult then the beetle adapters for 4x130 to 5x205

Karl wrote:
I will answer it again: you cannot put 5 x 205 wheels on 71 and bus disc brakes and hubs.

jogging my memory I'm pretty sure I've seen ads in my older HVWs for Wolfgang International

and a search on their website offered..

Wheel Adapters $87.95/pr
We make wheel adapters for some of the more common
5-112 to 5-205 Steel (pr) T2,71-; OR (2501602)

Quote: Wheel Adapters
We make wheel adapters for some of the more common drums and wheels. A lot of people think that wheel adapters are weak and you will have problems. Well, that's only partially true. The truth is, if you go from a small pattern drum to a large pattern wheel, or a small pattern drum to a small pattern wheel, then the adapter is flat and is as strong as the drum or stronger. But if you go from a large pattern drum to a small pattern wheel, the adapters are weaker, because they have to flower out and we don't recommend those. Wheel adapters are sold in pairs. (4-130 pattern, Bug 68 -) (5-205 pattern, Bug -67) (5-130 pattern, Porsche) (5-112 pattern, Bus 71-). The first number is your drum or rotor and the second number is your wheel

Stolen image http://www.wolfgangint.com/images/PartsPix/1501606.jpg

And you missed this in his original question:

"Is there any way of changing out hubs or redrilling rotors/drums without using an adapter?"

Again I ask, how are you going to drill and tap air???

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:03 am

1st I am open to any suggestions on this modification w/o the use of adapters!

Let me stop this before it gets out of hand..........

I said "If I dont have too"....

That doesnt mean that I am not willing to do that. But on the other hand the early bay windows have a 5x205 arrangement which means I should be able to make something work from that set up. I know that would be a downgrade to drum brakes up front but that may be possiable. The spindels are the same from 68-79 or they should be as everyone who sells spindels sell them in that year configuration! Which means the only differance should be the hubs. Right?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:33 am

P.Stratton wrote: The spindels are the same from 68-79 or they should be as everyone who sells spindels sell them in that year configuration! Which means the only differance should be the hubs. Right?

not right. there are 3 different spindles, 68-70, 71-72 and 73-79. 68-70 have no attachment bosses for the brake caliper.71-2 and 73-9 both have the boss but they have different size holes. the hubs are the same 71-79. no hub on 68-70 because the hub is part of the drum.

with what you are trying to do, the adapter is the only way, really. cheesy and borderline in terms of safety as well. i would never use wheel adapters on a bus, especially those 5x112 to 5x205 ones.

the alternative is a CSP front disc kit for wide 5, which is big money.

or back to stock bay bus drums brakes - swap out the spindles from a 68-70 and use those brakes and get the early rears also. you'll need the early rear stub axle and everything else for the 68-70 rear brakes. you may also need a new master cylinder if you do this, however you may be able to get away with the power brake master on the drum setup.

Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:41 pm

Thank you Scott. That is the first intellegant thing that I have heard so far! Thank you for the clarification on the differant spindels! I to am not comfortable with the adapters on the bus's expecially on the 5x112 to 5x205 conversion!
Any other suggestions from anyone?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:49 pm

P.Stratton wrote: Any other suggestions from anyone?

I suggest you find your high school English teacher and demand her resignation.

I always find it highly amusing when someone makes a comment on another's input, then spells the word i-n-t-e-l-l-i-g-e-n-t incorrectly.

Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:01 pm

vdubtech, you're a m-e-a-n-i-e.

Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:02 pm

germansupplyscott wrote: vdubtech, you're a m-e-a-n-i-e.

That's a-s-s-h-o-l-e to you mister. :twisted:

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:27 pm

Everyone has to be a smart-ass..
I love how you guys take a technical question and turn it into a lesson on how to spell things or how to use proper English or better yet how to be a smart-ass!(and yes it is a run on sentence! :P ) It is a shame that people can’t ask a question and get a straight answer from people who love air-cooled VW's and want to help others with their projects :!:
It is a shame everyone doesn't know as much as you!