TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:29 pm

ValleyHappy wrote: This thread points out the greatest thing about this vehicle....versatility and ability to customize to your liking....we all do it...stand in the driveway, stare at it, think about it, dream about it.

This has always been one of the real attractions to VWs in general. Ever since the venerable beetle made it to our shores, people have changed them to their own liking. Each one customized to it's owners particular purpose whether performance or looks or resale or whatever. Now that oval window beetles are so collectable, the purists scream bloody murder when somebody lowers one or even (God forbid) paints it a non-original color. Yet, people still customize them. The Vanagons seem to scream out for individual touches. To each his own.

Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:42 pm

When the time comes and/or the wallet allows, my 1.9L original engine will come out, and either a Subie or a turbo-diesel will go back in. As someone said earlier, I'm doing things to my Westy for ME, not some hypothetical future investor. I have better options available to me today in the engine conversion market than VW offered from the factory when my Westy was built. Why wouldn't I take advantage of that?

I admire and appreciate the work that tencentlife and some other are doing to make the waterboxer a better choice, but, to a collector looking for "original", even that would be frowned upon.

I think, when the day come that I consider selling, I would rather sell to someone who wants to USE the darn thing, not COLLECT it. Someone who wants to USE it will appreciate a more modern, reliable, and maybe cleaner powerplant.

Every car I've ever owned I drove, including a Triumph TR8, that collector wise, was appreciating at a far higher rate than my Westy. But darn that thing was fun to drive. Eventually sold it (for more than I paid) to a guy who, to this day, send me pics of him racing it at SCCA events. Gotta love that!!

Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:55 pm

I'd have to second the notion that true value lies in reliability, especially with a Westy that one would like to carry family & friends thousands of miles in every direction in. To me, the Go Westy appeal, price points, and success are a direct result of a customers desire for confidence in the ability of the vehicle to perform with minimal issues. They make them new again, at a price. We all love to feel good about our vehicles in preparation for our travels, and we dedicated do-it-yourselfers pay the same as anyone for the parts and pitch in our own labor towards that ultimate goal of roaming in reliable comfort.

The success of GoWesty and some other van restoration firms, and that of the really good do-it-yourselfers, sort of proves this reliability factor to be selling point number one, defining peak value in this marketplace of road seekers looking at small RV type vehicles. That definition has been a big influence in raising the value of all our vans and Westies out there in the American market, and really is the essential appeal in the vanagon resoration/conversion aftermarket.

A few years back I heard a real cool, change-driving healthcare supply procurement executive give a talk about how the modern automotive world wide supply chain is the most efficient and cost effective system in the world, in contrast to the least efficient and most expensive product supply chain in the world, the U.S. health care supply chain. Long story with many common analogies betwixt the two, but in general....

My thinking is that modern, relatively inexpensive and long-term universally available engine/engine support system components are highly desireable in this reliability/value equation, and that was my primary reasoning behind choosing the Zetec set up over a new boxer or Subie (and I once had a friend with an indestructible subie hatchback). I was about to pick a "new" boxer up though, in my current effort to basically make my van mechanically all new again, as much as possible anyway. But when I added up just the price to replace the elder digifant components in their entirety, I was already a big part of the way towards paying for a Zetec, and then the boxer stuff has a much less favorable prognosis for future parts availability/cost. In stark contrast, the aftermarket/supply chain for the Zetec is about the largest the planet has ever seen. Pretty much no other motor on earth capitalizes more on the modern automobile supply chain/manufacturing efficiencies than does the Zetec. Its right in the sweet spot where you can get anything anywhere in the world at a real good price. The other day I was in the generic auto section at WalMart and they had 3 serpentine belts for the Zetec in stock, and they were like $25 a piece. A bunch of your commons like the water pump, timing belt, alternators and what have yous are in the $50-$100 range. Any mechanic anywhere in North and South America has worked on these motors repeatedly in any number of the differnt model Ford cars that it is offered in. The way it sits in the van make it all so accessible for mechanical work. The bros at Bostig designed the whole conversion with these readily available parts, so long term maintenance/reliability is cost effective for decades to come. Even after 200,000 miles, not really a need to rebuild due to the plethora of salvage Zetecs available for a few hundred bucks a pop. Aside from the common parts they use, every other piece of their kit is made of stainless steel and brand new wiring all around, designed for a lifetime of use. They've also promised that, though I hope it never happens, if they go out of business, they will release the flywheel blueprints to all customers so new ones can be machined up and used as replacement parts in the future ( I think I read that here on the Samba).

These are the factors that sold me and I debated forever and a day about what to do, read everything I could on here, crunched all the money numbers over and over again. A lot of people looking to buy a reliable van will also be influenced heavily by that abundance of positive information that leads to the glow of ultimate reliability on the road.....not that I really care or am ever going to sell my Westy girl, but I think I could sell the conversion and recoup at least its purchase value.

For the record, the enthusiast in me also kind of likes the fact that those motorhead genuises in the VW motherland designed the Zetec. The enthusiast in me is also equally in awe of what American motorhead geniuses are doing to these Zetec/Duratec and other righteous modern 4 cylinder motors.

It does all depend on how one defines value and is capable of selling/offering that definition and supporting it with true information.

Zippet do da, zippety yay-
Brospeh

Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:09 pm

Broseph - the only problem w/ Zetec/Bostig engine - not legal in California. It cannot pass the emissions test. Though Bostig provides an idea on how to get around the testing - the likelihood of getting away with it is very, very small. Otherwise it is a great product.

Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:37 pm

Yep, a lot of van buyers/lovers are here in Cali, so in this fine state it does impact conversion value. Bostig has lost a buncha potential customers here cause of it. I'm not sure that is a true negative in terms of value though...having a bunch of people who want the product but just cant have it. Still a very sellable/valuable conversion in the other 49 states though.

Personally, I'm a movin' to central NY this spring to build a timber frame home with an old buddy. So my Zetec will not be at risk of future persecution by the man.

It is a little weird though. I mean, there are probably a few million Ford Zetecs/Duratecs with catalytic converters running in Cali right now, I can name 4 friends that have a Focus, and the smog man will still pass my less clean burnin' boxer. Thats another tree to climb though, nothing to do with overall van value.

Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:03 am

for me, I would care far more about reliability than potential future sale of vehicle. First off, I highly doubt I would ever sell my WESTY. I may even be buried in Kaya. Secondly, I really do not think which engine you have in your WESTY matters to most people... except for a few VW enthusiats. It certainly doesn't matter to me.

I had the GoWesty 2.4 put in mine. When I did that I was a complete novice to the vanagon world. Had I known then what I know now I would have gone the bio diesel route. Had I known today what I had put into Kaya over the last few years I would have looked for and found a custom synchro... really love the one Karl Mullendore had (still pictured on www.westyventures.com) for sale a while ago.

I love GoWesty... Lucas is cool... prices are high... engine is not trouble free.

ASWAH

Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:01 pm

Only mention of the tiico is that it has "fallen out of favor"- they still seem to command more than stock motor vans. I put mine in over 5 years and 50k ago because we were taking a 6,ooo mile trip with the family and my wasserleaker was leaking and oil light coming on- bottom line didn't trust it. I have had zero problems with the tiico (well okay, a cracked exhaust header) and have taken it coast to coast and then some with the whole family and no worries. I have put the A3 brackets on, which I like, get noticeably better mileage in my syncro, don't have to downshift for hills. But the real thing for me is its VW- just didn't feel right putting a used japanese motor in.

That said, the 38k original miles syncro adventurewagen I just picked up will probably stay stock for now.. I do think there is something to keeping it orginal as these get rarer...

Just my 2 cents..
dan

87 syncro GL tiico
89 syncro adventurewagen "clyde"
69 sportsmobile

Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:12 pm

dan vandenheede wrote: ... but the real thing for me is its VW- just didn't feel right putting a used japanese motor in.

Meh,

Brand loyalty is fine as long as one admits it's a bit irrational. The Subaru motors are boxer engines just like Porsches and the old VW motors (including the Vanagon WBX obviously). Does it make it any better or "purer" to put an inline motor in a Vanagon just because it's made by VW.....nah...it doesn't matter; at least not to me.

As long as the conversion is reliable with cleaner emissions and brings a smile to the owners face..then it's worth it. At that point it doesn't matter what the engine is in my opinion.

- Chester

Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:09 pm

I also agree that the Tiico shouldnt be written off yet. I bought mine already converted, and have put somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 miles on it in the past year, with no real trouble (again cracked exhaust header when I bought it) other than normal Vanagon issues. I cant say with any certainty that its the best conversion, but VW parts are certainly plentiful, and if the Tiico motor craps out, almost any 4cyl VW motor, including diesels, will fit on the mounting set up. Like I've said before mines been good to me.