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Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:29 pm

Has anybody adjusted their own torsion bar on a swingaxle trans for toe before? I am assuming that you would remove the end caps, remove the verticle bars that hold the plate in place, and pull the torsion plate out off the splines. But are they under load? I am assuming so and am guessing that you would rotate the bar a few splines to allow the toe to decrease and let the rear tires sit straighter. But how much pressure is it under? Dangerous pressure or just a small preload? Or am I way off track?Trying to get the back tires to sit straighter and look better. ANY input is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:32 pm

I just took mine off/out while I'm cleaning up the pan for paint. I took the covers off and gave the swing plate a couple of whacks with a rubber mallet until it cleared the stop. Mine went about a quarter of an inch past the stop when they were out far enough to clear it. There wasn't very much tension on mine.

Hope that helps.

Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:34 pm

Pressure ....it depends but i would stay clear of it when it comes off those stops just to be safe. A tool is sold to get it back up on the stop once you adj it to your liking.

Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:37 pm

And the inner end of the torsion bar has 40 splines and the outer end has 44 splines. So adjusting the inner end gives you 9 degrees and adjusting the outter gives you 8 degrees 10 minutes. (60 minutes equals 1 degree)

So you have some adjustability to fine tune.

Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:31 pm

sturgeongeneral wrote: Has anybody adjusted their own torsion bar on a swingaxle trans for toe before? I am assuming that you would remove the end caps, remove the verticle bars that hold the plate in place, and pull the torsion plate out off the splines. But are they under load? I am assuming so and am guessing that you would rotate the bar a few splines to allow the toe to decrease and let the rear tires sit straighter. But how much pressure is it under? Dangerous pressure or just a small preload? Or am I way off track?Trying to get the back tires to sit straighter and look better. ANY input is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

This is not how you adjust toe. Simply loosen the 3 spring plate bolts and move the wheel backwatds to increase toe out, forward to increase toe in. Your proceedure is for ride height which will affect camber and as a result the camber change will change toe

Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:40 pm

sturgeongeneral wrote: Has anybody adjusted their own torsion bar on a swingaxle trans for toe before? I am assuming that you would remove the end caps, remove the verticle bars that hold the plate in place, and pull the torsion plate out off the splines. But are they under load? I am assuming so and am guessing that you would rotate the bar a few splines to allow the toe to decrease and let the rear tires sit straighter. But how much pressure is it under? Dangerous pressure or just a small preload? Or am I way off track?Trying to get the back tires to sit straighter and look better. ANY input is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

You're describing adjusting your rear camber, not toe in. Yes, the torsion bar and spring plate are under more than enough preload to cause serious injury. Here is an article on how to adjust them.
http://www.meyersmanx.com/garage/garage_suspend.htm

There are quite a few people around the Sacramento area in this group who could give you first hand advice or assistance if you need it.
http://rbcdunebuggy.yuku.com/

Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:16 pm

Well I went to the local VW toy store and picked up a torsion tool. He said to be VERY careful as my torsion bar was adjusted to absolute maximum. Today I jacked up the buggy and went at it. Started disassemby, tightened up the tool on the torsion plate, and started getting that hair up on the back of your neck feeling. I had to crank on the tool and ended up with a 4 foot cheater bar. I had to crank on that bad boy with that cheater and it is hardly moving. Finally got the plate off rest and started to rise. Had the tool cranked up just a hair before max and had to stop. I have been brought back from the dead twice, been in a car as it rolled over 14 times, flew 85 feet through the air when a kid hit me on my harley at 65 mph, rode bikes with the nastiest, foulest outlaws on the planet, been in surgery 26 times, but nothing has ever scared me like the tension that was on that torsion bar!! Looks like I'm gonna have to shell out the $300 bucks and have it done at the shop. It takes an awful lot to shake me these days, but this one scares the living *&%#$@ out of me!

Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:01 pm

Something does not sound right. to be that tight you would not be able to make it move when driving. The shop should not charge more than 200$ it takes less than 2 hours to do. You do know you only need to lift the spring plats barely off the stop. then use a crow bar and or a flat head screw driver to pull it off. I don't even use the tool to remove it. I pull the cover plate off and pry it. It just goes down a little.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:53 pm

We take tension off "standard" height setup with a simple chain around shock tower and under floor jack.... Never had any qualms about doing this as long as body parts are not directly under spring plate incase something lets loose....

If your hair is raising, just back a way because you are in way to deep and its should not be that scary of an operation....

All you need to do is get spring plate off the stop (maybe 1/16 inch) pry it outward to clear stop and ease off on jack....

On our lowered cars, we don't even use a jack because spring plate is not even on stop....

Dale

Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:58 pm

YA the jack was the easy way and no fear of anything, I like my way. pry and it walks down the lip of the stop.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:35 pm

I used the VW issue tool. Slips over the top of a bolt in the shock tower plate (like the bolt for the ground battery cable) A v slot piece of metal slips around the bottom of the torsion plate which slides upward to lift the plate as you tighten a double handle driver up the threads to lift the plate. Once the plate lifts off the plate you put a scew driver behind the torsion plate to use as a ramp to pull the plate off the splines as you unscrew the handles giving you a controled release. Sounds simple enough to me. Jacking under the torsion plate only lifts the car and doesn't lift the plate off the rest. 8 inch wide rear tires and only about 3" touching the road. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on the torsion plate. I cant see how someone could have even gotten that much pressure on it. Like I said I had to put a 4 foot cheater bar on the handles to turn it enought to lift the plate. Giving all I could on the 4 foot cheater I could only barely lift the plate. There is just an excessively tremendoudeous amount of force in that torsion assy.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:15 pm

sturgeongeneral wrote: There is a tremendous amount of pressure on the torsion plate. I cant see how someone could have even gotten that much pressure on it. Like I said I had to put a 4 foot cheater bar on the handles to turn it enought to lift the plate. Giving all I could on the 4 foot cheater I could only barely lift the plate. There is just an excessively tremendoudeous amount of force in that torsion assy.

Wow thats crazy :shock:
I advise you to get a professional to do this.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:01 am

Do you have both swingaxles unbolted, pulled loose and secured above and clear of the springplates. Is the car up on jack stands with at least a couple feet of clearance so when the springplates are pried off the perches, they won't hit anything under tension. If so, use a long prybar to pry the spingplates off the perches and just stand clear. The tool is really just necessary for tensioning them.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:06 am

sturgeongeneral wrote: Once the plate lifts off the plate you put a scew driver behind the torsion plate to use as a ramp to pull the plate off the splines as you unscrew the handles giving you a controled release.

You're doing it wrong!!! You use the screwdriver to pry the plate off the stop, not the splines!!! DON"T TRY TO TAKE THE PLATE OFF THE SPLINES UNTIL ALL THE TENSION IS RELEASED!!!

Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:48 am

Use the screwdriver as a RAMP, not to pull off splines. Just as article posted in this thread states. It is on stands, all unbolted, everything clear, just seems to have WAY too much pressure. Like I said, the local VW shop guys said it looked way too tight. I wouldnt think there even could be as much pressure as there seems to be.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:31 am

What ever you are doing it sounds like you either don't have it setup right, something is dangerously wrong, or that you don't have good understanding what process is about....

If VW tool wont lift plate off stop with just hand pressure applied to handles, the tool is either defective or not setup correctly or plate is jammed so hard it can not move.

If you can not lift arm with simple floor jack and a chain around jack base and shock tower ... You either don't understand set up, or something is desperately wrong with spring plate and spline setup...

No I am not say if you are dumb or stupid, I'm saying you have not fully analyzed situation to a point where you have identified why work operation is not progressing in way we have all described ...

It's a just steel and rubber, it has no brains, don't let it out wit you. You are the one with the brain.. Think this thing through....

Pull torsion cover plate off and see if there is actually a torsion bar in tube... If plate won't flex off stop maybe previous owner welded plate solid to torsion housing under end cover.... I know it doesn't sound like something anybody would do, but then again some levels of dumb never cease to amaze me...

Got any pictures of suspension and "set up" of tools you are trying to use?

Dale

Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:36 am

First I want to say that I appreciate everyones input. Looking at the situation from a different angle here is what I see: As stated a jack will not lift the spring plate off its stop. It will only lift the car and not budge the plate off the stop. When using the tool to lift it using a 4 foot cheater bar will lift it barely with tremendous force on the cheater. Watching what happens in the tube area the torsion tube doesnt really move but the inner bushing tweaks upward lifting the plate off the stop. Here is my assessment: it almost seems like the tube is at a stop or maximum position. Almost like having a bolt bottom out in a hole. It is like I am not feeling spring pressure but running up against a stop. So here is my question: is there actually a "maximum" position or a stop?

Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:04 am

sturgeongeneral wrote: So here is my question: is there actually a "maximum" position or a stop?

The springplate has an upper and lower stop. The torsion bar itself has no "stop"

I'd be happy to come over this afternoon and assist. Send me a PM if you'd like me to.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:09 am

sturgeongeneral wrote: As stated a jack will not lift the spring plate off its stop. It will only lift the car and not budge the plate off the stop.

Then you do not have chain looped around the shock tower, and around jack!...

If you have closes loop of chain around tower and jack and if lift pad of jack is under spring plate. Spring plate has to move when jacking (up)moton is applied, if spring plate does not move, either jack or chain breaks... It sounds like you are either not using chain or do not have is applied correctly...

If done right, it can not lift car it has to lift spring plate and only spring plate off "lower travel stop"....

Dale

Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:29 pm

BL3Manx came over today and helped out. He agreed that there was an unusual amount of tension on the torsion assy, possibly due to a mystery plate welded in by previuos owner. After adjusting back and forth between sides I finally have it adjusted to my liking. He is a phenominal guy and I can NOT thank him enough for his help. He would not take anything for his time and knowledge and is a truly great guy. So here it is: I believe in paying it forward so anybody in the Sacramento area who needs a hand please let me know. This community here on Samba is the best. And I am proud to be a member. Thanks to all!