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GeorgeL Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:06 pm

kevtherev wrote: The forces that GoergeL describes are the same that killed Diana her body decelerated against the back of the passenger seat, then her internal organs carried on until they catastrophically decelerated against her ribcage and torso, where they turned to soup...not a mark on the gal but she internally bled to death in minutes.
If, however they had hit a smaller car instead of a pillar the energy transfer would have saved their lives.
interestingly the only occupant to survive was wearing a seatbelt..yet they too decelerated at the same speed.

I do a detailed analysis of this accident with my students. Skipping the hour of chalkboard talk, it boils down to the fact that the belted occupant (Trevor Reese-Jones) decelerated pretty much from the time when the Mercedes contacted the abutment while Diana didn't strike the interior of the vehicle until the vehicle was virtually stationary. Her deceleration time was about 1/8 as long, so her deceleration forces were eight times as much.

Sled tests have shown that humans can survive momentarily decelerations of 50g. Reese-Jones experienced about 40g, while Diana experienced 300+g. She didn't have a chance.

Moral: Wear your belt, and keep your chauffeur out of the bar.

Zeen Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:23 pm

ho-dad wrote: I need something that gets around 25-30 around town to justify buying another car..

Now the truth comes out. You're tired of driving the truck, and want a new car that's fun to drive. You're using the gas mileage argument to justify it. Here are the fuel cost numbers:

Truck: 15,000 miles/year / 15 miles/gal x $4/gal = $4000/year
Fun car: 15000 miles/year / 30 miles/gal x $4/gal = $2000/year

If you really don't need a truck, and are one of those people that drive one for Freudian reasons, by all means replace it. But if you plan to keep the truck, the savings in fuel will never cover the cost of depreciation and insurance on another vehicle

Go ahead and give in to your automotive Id, but be honest about it.

59 vw guy Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:47 am

I have purchased a 05 mini not s model ..Its auto and funnest car i have ever drove even more than my air cooled bugs.. its gets about 34 on hiway and has never got worse than 30 even how i drive i cant weigh in on dependability factor yet but i bought a extended warranty just as i do on all my new or used cars and i looked at all crash test results before my purchase as i have kids and it is great in the tests which weighs in of reason for purchase.. it pays for itself in milage sure there are a few other cars with the milage but mini has a awsome resale when that time comes..

ho-dad Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:56 pm

Zeen wrote: ho-dad wrote: I need something that gets around 25-30 around town to justify buying another car..

Now the truth comes out. You're tired of driving the truck, and want a new car that's fun to drive. You're using the gas mileage argument to justify it. Here are the fuel cost numbers:

Truck: 15,000 miles/year / 15 miles/gal x $4/gal = $4000/year
Fun car: 15000 miles/year / 30 miles/gal x $4/gal = $2000/year

If you really don't need a truck, and are one of those people that drive one for Freudian reasons, by all means replace it. But if you plan to keep the truck, the savings in fuel will never cover the cost of depreciation and insurance on another vehicle

Go ahead and give in to your automotive Id, but be honest about it.

I have a hard time arguing with a guy who's avatar is Soul Brother #1, James Brown.

Believe me, I don't get off on driving a pick-up. Owning a house on a half acre with a couple of old cars kind of made it a necessity. It's my DD a dependable vehicle but I'd like to get something easier on both my wallet as well as the environment.

Hell, if I gave into my automotive "id" I'd be blasting around in a '62 SuperStock Dodge Dart with the header caps off - gas mileage be damned!

WileyVW Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:19 pm

How about the new Smart Car anyone driven one of those yet, driver & Passenger inside a crash capsule and advertising 42 mpg??

Mr. Loaf Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:59 am

I'd skip out on the Mini. Too many problems. Whynot look for an older Honda CRX? Fun car with great MPGs.

ruckman101 Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:00 am

I've ridden in a Morris Mini, in the back seat. I was amazed at the room and comfort. You'd never think.

I'll ask my coworker about issues with his newer mini-cooper.

I'm amazed at the discussion, actually. I've run a Triumph Spitfire, with Lucas electrics, I've heard they make light bulbs, too, lots of electrically driven bits, and England is unified in dubbing Lucas as the Prince of Darkness. Gotta love that kind of reliability. I experienced it.

To take a newer car to anywhere but the dealer is null and void on that extended warranty you hope you bought. A total racket. You want the computer code on the ignition system, sorry, proprietary information, industry secret, would you like to purchase a better extended warranty oh keep bending over. We don't care, we don't have to. Oh a problem with that? Meet our lawyers. It's all legal.

Oops, sorry, bad anti-lock brake module. 20 minutes to figure out, $1,200 for a new module. Thanks. I bet I could put together a pretty darn fresh type 1 engine for my bus with that kind of change.

I hear the new Coopers are a blast to drive. I'd love to drive one, hard, especially if I didn't own it. But patching rust and getting down the road suits me fine.

All that incredible engineering technology executed as cheaply as able to get away with. Whoa, sounds like aftermarket air-cooled parts.


neal

plasticman1432 Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:32 am

Ecoh72 wrote: They use a certain kind of coolant, power steering fluid and you have to use synthetic oil, all of which cost more...

But, they are fun cars, quick, nimble and yes, decent gas mileage.

The very same can be said of newer VWs, as well as most other makes nowadays. Even my A2-chassis Golfs and Jettas are finicky when it comes to things like oil and filters.

If you are a competent driver, clutch replacement should be a non-issue for many years to come; my '91 Jetta's original owner put 190K on the original clutch, and I got another 25K out of it before selling it.

ho-dad Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:15 pm

Well, folks, I've decided on an '04 Civic coupe. Not a lot of soul but crash worthy, great gas mileage and it's pretty fun to drive. Plus, my ex-Golf owning sister has one and she hasn't had any trouble with hers.

Thanks again for all the input - I knew I'd get some good advice from my fellow Sambanistas!. Now I just need a Wolfsburg sticker to slap on it and confuse the tuner kids ;-)

obus Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:12 pm

i have been looking at minis again as i am getting bored with my CRVand may pass it to my Wife but i probably won't bite. Ho-dad, i rock TheSamba sticker on my CRV proudly(which already has over17k in 4 months)

59 vw guy Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:43 pm

I still love my mini gets tons of attention.. very gas friendly..so far no problemsexcept kinda hard on window tint

ho-dad Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:52 am

I gotta admit it, I love my Honda. Drives like a go-kart and I'm getting almost 40 mpg. And to think I bought it when gas was only $3.35/gallon! It's going to take me less time to justify its cost - every so often I do make a good financial decision ;-)

And the Wolfsburg crest decal on the quarter window looks great as well...

wsniderokc Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:15 am

GeorgeL wrote: myzamboni wrote: GeorgeL wrote: myzamboni wrote:
3) See below (MINI vs. F-150 in the same offset frontal crash test)



Well, that's mini vs F150 when both are run into an immovable barrier. If it were a crash of a mini _with_ an F-150 I have a feeling the balance would be different.

As in, the F-150 driver would be worrying about replacing his bumper while the mini driver would be worrying about nothing at all.


Both hit the barrier at 40 mph. So at twice the speed (40 east vs. 40 west), the truck suddenly becomes a better crash survivor? :roll:

Remember basic physics class where you did the momentum problem involving the Volkswagen bug and the Mack truck?

The same applies here. The lightest F150 weighs 6000 pounds. The Mini weighs 2500 pounds. Using your speeds the head on collision works out this way:

MtVt+McVc = MtcVtc

6000(40)+2500(-40) = 8500(Vtc)

(truck direction taken as positive)

16.5 mi/h = Vtc

(both vehicles end up going 16.5mph in the original direction of the truck)

Which means that, if you are driving the F150, you will experience a deceleration of 23.5mph. If you are driving the Mini, you will experience a decelerations of 56.5mph in the same amount of time. That means that the Mini driver experiences 2.4 times the acceleration forces that the F150 driver experiences.

That's not to say that the F150 is always the safer option. As the photos show, if the opponent is a solid wall it is better to be in the Mini. However, a collision between large and small vehicles is not the same as a collision with a solid wall and in mixed collisions the occupants of the small vehicles tend to be at a disadvantage.


guess it just boils down to this.... would you rather be driving the bat or the ball?

Gary Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:34 am

wsniderokc wrote:
guess it just boils down to this.... would you rather be driving the bat or the ball?

What it boils down to is that I want fewer to no injuries and the Ford pickup certainly doesn't look fit the bill. A picture is worth a thousand words.

GeorgeL Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:47 am

Icy wrote: What it boils down to is that I want fewer to no injuries and the Ford pickup certainly doesn't look fit the bill. A picture is worth a thousand words.

It is only worth a thousand words if you don't care to read and wish to be misled.

Those pictures apply only to collisions with immovable barriers, not other vehicles. Most collisions are between vehicles.

I hope that wasn't too long to hold your attention...

Gary Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:56 am

GeorgeL wrote: Icy wrote: What it boils down to is that I want fewer to no injuries and the Ford pickup certainly doesn't look fit the bill. A picture is worth a thousand words.

It is only worth a thousand words if you don't care to read and wish to be misled.

Those pictures apply only to collisions with immovable barriers, not other vehicles. Most collisions are between vehicles.

I hope that wasn't too long to hold your attention...

Fine, now you have two vehicles with controlled deformation going against each other and the Mini Cooper still comes out ahead.

And your point is? :roll:

///Mink Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:15 pm

To add to my previous comments on our MCS...it's latest problem is random lighting of the tire pressure/traction/ABS lights along with the ABS itself, sometimes accompanied by automatic opening of the sunroof and windows. :shock:

My wife is so pissed off at the car she can't see straight.

GeorgeL Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:51 pm

Icy wrote: GeorgeL wrote: Icy wrote: What it boils down to is that I want fewer to no injuries and the Ford pickup certainly doesn't look fit the bill. A picture is worth a thousand words.

It is only worth a thousand words if you don't care to read and wish to be misled.

Those pictures apply only to collisions with immovable barriers, not other vehicles. Most collisions are between vehicles.

I hope that wasn't too long to hold your attention...

Fine, now you have two vehicles with controlled deformation going against each other and the Mini Cooper still comes out ahead.

And your point is? :roll:

That you might benefit from reading this:



Hint: In a head-on collision between a object of small mass and an object of large mass the small mass ends up going opposite to its original direction. The velocity change of the small mass will therefore be greater than that of the large mass. Since the time of collision is the same for both objects the acceleration of the small mass will be greater. Large accelerations hurt.

Here's an animation to help illustrate the concept. Which vehicle experiences the greatest net change in its velocity?

http://danmuji.ddart.net/science/physics/physics_tutorial/mmedia/qt/momentum/cthoiwin.html

59 vw guy Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:38 pm

I agree with icy looks like photos show which one is safer dont make a crap about physics LOOK AT THE PICS>> and you guys cant worry to much about safety hell we all drive air cooled vws there not safest thing on market..Not only that but mini made the cars to auto unlock when theres a crash and start the emergency flashers flashing .. :D

Fusillade Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:17 pm

GeorgeL wrote: piemat wrote: Also they require premium fuel. Your gas just went up 10 cents more.

Hmmm, that 10 cents used to be significant when it represented 10% of the fuel price. These days it represents less than 3%. If you can raise compression to raise engine efficiency by more than 3% it would actually be cheaper to run premium fuel!

If the engine is designed for premium fuel, and if (the big if!) you can resist the urge to use all that extra power on tap, you might be money ahead with a premium fueled vehicle.

I don't have that much will power, though... :D

I used to own a Durango. Horrible gas mileage. I found that if I ran mid grade though, the increase in gas mileage was worth the additional expense.

As for the initial question, I drive 450 miles per week and was looking for a fun, fuel efficient vehicle to get me to work and back; however, after reading repair reports and realizing that the nearest Mini dealer is 150 miles away should I have problems, I decided to go with a Honda instead. Not real fun, not as fuel efficient, but should be a lot more reliable.



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