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joeg Tue May 20, 2008 7:52 am

I sell on eBay occasionally; I listed some items last week and sold about half of my listings. After collecting funds and leaving feedback for the fast payers I noticed eBay changed the feedback rating system. No negative feedback is allowed anymore from sellers. I have not had time to read the "fine print" yet, but the general consensus is that the goal was to eliminate retaliatory negative feedback.

I know several of you sell on eBay (Notchback, Tram, etc), just wondering what your thoughts were on this? I did spend some time reading the eBay forums and it seems to be not going over very well.

powellscooter Tue May 20, 2008 8:00 am

So if a buyer jerks you around you cant leave negative feedback?
Have Meg and Pierre lost their mind? I think e-bay is reaching critical mass.

dquattlebum Tue May 20, 2008 8:00 am

Ebay/Paypal sucks... They released that info months ago... As a seller you get the shit end of the stick whether you're a scammer or not...

2true Tue May 20, 2008 9:15 am

dquattlebum wrote: Ebay/Paypal sucks... They released that info months ago... As a seller you get the shit end of the stick whether you're a scammer or not...

x 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Tram Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 am

EBay wants to become another "retail mall" like Amazon. They are fools. In addition, they're trying to force users to use PayPal for more profit. They've made it mandatory in Australia.

The changes they've made on eBay are many, and they all suck. Every day, you wonder "What NOW???" Half the time they just change policies without announcing it. They recently blindsided all digital download sellers by just eliminating/ banning them with absolutely no warning.

They've totally lost focus of who they are.

I'm working on re-creating my website that I closed in 2001 to concentrate on eBay. I'm sick of being fee'd to death, and being treated like some sort of pariah when I have a question or issue.

coad Tue May 20, 2008 9:51 am

I can see both sides, but as a Buyer, once I 1. Bid on your shit, and 2. Send you the payment, my job is done and the rest of it is on the Seller's back. There's too many Sellers out there who were leaving (or threatening) to leave negative feedback if a Buyer so much as squeaked about not being 110% happy with a transaction.

Overall though I've managed to get through 650 or so transactions as both a buyer and a seller without ever leaving or receiving anything other than positive feedback. There's been a few deals that weren't what I would have liked, but basically the system works better than it has any right to considering how mickey mouse it really is.

There's also been a lot of changes in the last 10 years, and I haven't liked a lot of them, but considering how the thing has grown, I don't think you can seriously say that the system could have handled the growth without those changes. It is more impersonal now, but it's also easier and more efficient too, and it's still the best place for buying and selling stuff anyone's ever invented.

I also love PayPal. I just wish eBay didn't own it. I think it would be better for both if they were each independent companies.

iowegian Tue May 20, 2008 10:19 am

So after "The Change" my feedback score jumped from 341 to 405 overnight.(buyer only. haven't sold yet).
What is that about? :?

Tram Tue May 20, 2008 10:45 am

coad wrote: I can see both sides, but as a Buyer, once I 1. Bid on your shit, and 2. Send you the payment, my job is done and the rest of it is on the Seller's back. There's too many Sellers out there who were leaving (or threatening) to leave negative feedback if a Buyer so much as squeaked about not being 110% happy with a transaction.

Overall though I've managed to get through 650 or so transactions as both a buyer and a seller without ever leaving or receiving anything other than positive feedback. There's been a few deals that weren't what I would have liked, but basically the system works better than it has any right to considering how mickey mouse it really is.

There's also been a lot of changes in the last 10 years, and I haven't liked a lot of them, but considering how the thing has grown, I don't think you can seriously say that the system could have handled the growth without those changes. It is more impersonal now, but it's also easier and more efficient too, and it's still the best place for buying and selling stuff anyone's ever invented.

I also love PayPal. I just wish eBay didn't own it. I think it would be better for both if they were each independent companies.

I agree with your feedback analysis. Way too much emphasis is placed on feedback rather than on the actual item and sale, IMHO. But, eBay has created that atmosphere. Your feedback as a seller determines where you get placed in Search, how much you can sell, and IF you can sell. An undeserved negative can bone a good small seller. And, buyers ARE aware that the new system has sellers frightened- and are using it to re- negotiate things after bidding. You should visit the discussion boards over there. It's a nightmare.

As to PayPal, they've rolled out 21-day holds, and "E-Checks", which are now sometimes taking weeks to "clear"- even when they clear the customers' bank account in two days. :roll: Sellers used to be able to opt out of taking "E-Checks", but not anymore. As soon as THAT policy went into effect, E-Checks went from 3 days clearing time to a week, and a lot of buyers have been discovering that their default has "miraculously" changed to E-Check. Meanwhile, PayPal is milking the interest gravy train.

"Glitches" abound, but none ever seem to benefit buyers or sellers, they ONLY benefit eBay/ PayPal. Strange, huh?

coad Tue May 20, 2008 12:18 pm

Tram wrote: [
As to PayPal, they've rolled out 21-day holds, and "E-Checks", which are now sometimes taking weeks to "clear"- even when they clear the customers' bank account in two days. :roll: Sellers used to be able to opt out of taking "E-Checks", but not anymore. As soon as THAT policy went into effect, E-Checks went from 3 days clearing time to a week, and a lot of buyers have been discovering that their default has "miraculously" changed to E-Check. Meanwhile, PayPal is milking the interest gravy train.

That was my point. When ebay and paypal are both owned by the same master the decision-making gets twisted, and both of them start doing things they never would have done if they were independent.

It reminds me of Hertz Car Rental. Over the years both Ford and GM bought Hertz thinking that it would be a natural fit, both times Hertz suffered and the auto companies lost money owning it, and both times they finally realized that Hertz and the car companies did better apart than together.

I think PayPal could have been huge if ebay had left it alone and let it grow, but ebay bent it into something that was supposed to fit their little slice of the internet, and now they've lost their chance. Google or somebody will come out with a payment system one of these days and paypal will be fucked.

Foxx Tue May 20, 2008 12:38 pm

i won a wrench a few weeks ago and still haven't seen it.. other things i have bought came quickly and some after i bought the wrench.
should i have to just forget about it because i don't want a black mark on my feedback because the seller is a lazy ass and i paid up front?

joeg Tue May 20, 2008 1:44 pm

Frank,

I've been reading up on the changes today, if I'm correct -

I think you now can leave the seller negative feedback (after 7 days if itís a power seller) but they cannot leave you a negative in return. No retaliation is the goal, according to eBay...

Here's part of the message from eBay on their feedback changes -

The changes will enable:
Buyers to be more honest when they leave Feedback, since they will not fear retaliatory negative Feedback.
Buyers to bid more and higher, since their trust in the Feedback system and the sellers will increase.
Our best performing sellers to differentiate themselves from all other sellers and increase the amount of business they receive as buyers gravitate towards them.
Sellers to leave Feedback upon payment more often in order to increase their chance of receiving positive Feedback.
The change is designed to benefit both buyers and sellers. Improving the Feedback system should increase the number of buyers whose expectations are met. This should result in more buying activity, which will in turn benefit sellers.

Joe

Lee. Tue May 20, 2008 6:02 pm

As long as the seller is honest, there really shouldn't be a problem. No one is going to have 100% positive feedback, which was bs anyways. The paypal policies suck. I figure, as long as I'm up front about the item for sale and I ship it with a tracking number, for the most part, I'll do ok.

toydude111 Tue May 20, 2008 9:29 pm

I'm done with ebay as a seller. Out of 912 feedbacks, I have 2 negatives. This results in like a 98% positive feedback rating.The new calculation system shows only the last 12 months of feedback, in which I have 2 positives and 1 nuetral (by a newbie that didn't know the click the positive button). This results in my positive feedback rating now being 66.7%. What a joke.

Tram Tue May 20, 2008 9:48 pm

Lee. wrote: As long as the seller is honest, there really shouldn't be a problem. No one is going to have 100% positive feedback, which was bs anyways. The paypal policies suck. I figure, as long as I'm up front about the item for sale and I ship it with a tracking number, for the most part, I'll do ok.

Baloney.

Dusty1 Wed May 21, 2008 5:38 am

I pretty much ignored the changes but...

I just tried to list a couple things, they got bounced because I don't take PayPal. I read the small print on eBay's listing manager and it says "to make eBay a safer place (blah blah blah) all sellers are required to take PayPal. WTF? I live in the United States of America, Land of the Free and last time I looked at a dollar bill it says, "This note is leagal tender for all debts, public and private". I read that to mean I can take green Yankee dollars however I please and eBay can't shove PayPal up my ass. Guess I was wrong...

The popular PayPal scam is for the buyer to initiate a dispute for whatever reason. That ties the funds up in PayPal's bot (eBay by any other name) and as a seller you're just screwed. Near as I can tell ultimately the buyer gets the item and they get their money back. That's total bullshit.

Merchandise, unless it's a rare item almost never sells at a retail price on eBay. It sells at a wholesale price to the public, that's why eBay is so popular. It's a screw deal for me, the seller, because I'm workin' on a very thin margin. I can make zilch on an item or even lose money a whole bunch of ways. One way is for foreign bidders to purchase my stuff, I can easily spend more to ship to Europe than I sold the item for. It's very popular to foreign bidders to bend me over on shipping, they tell me what shipping should be and that's that.

Toss in $10.00 worth of gas to drive over to FedEx or UPS, then subtract that from the $10.00 selling price equals a net loss.

That's if the buyer doesn't hang me up with PayPal.

It's un-a-frickin'-merican. :evil:

Scott H Wed May 21, 2008 5:56 am

Dusty1 wrote: Guess I was wrong...

You were.
On eBay you play by eBay's rules. Just like you play by Everett's rules here on the Samba.
It's very simple. If you don't like it take your business elsewhere.

vujade Wed May 21, 2008 6:17 am

Scott H wrote: Dusty1 wrote: Guess I was wrong...

You were.
On eBay you play by eBay's rules. Just like you play by Everett's rules here on the Samba.
It's very simple. If you don't like it take your business elsewhere.

X2. If you dont like it, start your own website with a shopping cart
and take any form of payment that your heart desires :wink:

Dusty1 Wed May 21, 2008 7:00 am

Scott H wrote: Dusty1 wrote: Guess I was wrong...

You were.
On eBay you play by eBay's rules. Just like you play by Everett's rules here on the Samba.
It's very simple. If you don't like it take your business elsewhere.

I'll take a busload o' Everett B.s over one fingernail clipping from the dickheads over at eBay. Everett has extended me wide latitude towards standin' on a soapbox and soundin' off. I've never heard one peep of "love it or shove it" over here.

Gary Wed May 21, 2008 7:13 am

Dusty1 wrote: Scott H wrote: Dusty1 wrote: Guess I was wrong...

You were.
On eBay you play by eBay's rules. Just like you play by Everett's rules here on the Samba.
It's very simple. If you don't like it take your business elsewhere.

I'll take a busload o' Everett B.s over one fingernail clipping from the dickheads over at eBay. Everett has extended me wide latitude towards standin' on a soapbox and soundin' off. I've never heard one peep of "love it or shove it" over here.

Funny how you preach "this is America" and then bitch about how a business runs its operation. You basically want the "freedom" to tell E-Bay how to run its business. :roll:

joeg Wed May 21, 2008 7:22 am

Lee. wrote: As long as the seller is honest, there really shouldn't be a problem. No one is going to have 100% positive feedback, which was bs anyways. The paypal policies suck. I figure, as long as I'm up front about the item for sale and I ship it with a tracking number, for the most part, I'll do ok.

Lee,
it can be done. I have over 550 transactions, 100% positive. Thatís buying and selling over many years. If your honest and provide good service, it's easy. Service is the key; more people need to learn this concept. I know of fellow eBayerís that have thousands of transaction and are 100% positive too. Itís all about how you run your business and deal with problems that will come up.

Joe



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