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twinwindows Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:37 pm

Rich's 50 wrote: Lidpainter wrote: twinwindows wrote: Lidpainter wrote: Just wondering if the top and upholstery were OG or reproduction.


Well the seats door panels and trim are real leather (hard to fake?) and so is the stay fast canvas top. And before you ask the Chrome deco strips are original items made of brass then plated in chrome.

I can go on and on but were talking about fake rear lids so try to keep up.

I'm keeping up just fine, thanks. My point is that even the most perfect 50 year old car has something on it that isn't original. It doesn't make sense to put off enjoying your car because you can't find or afford german metal when there are high quality repops out there. You should be happy that somebody took the time to make something that could pass for original. As long as nobody tries to pass it off as an original who gives a shit?

Homeboy makes perfect sence :wink:

I`m all for enjoying what you got Lid and I said that before if your down to roll a clone vert lid that that's cool also but if you want to make a car somewhat 100% correct a fake lid will never make the car complete.


Even now I`m starting to notice that when I look at a early vert at shows the owners are quick to tell me the rear lid is real.

twinwindows Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:40 pm

[email protected] wrote: REAL VWS came in matte paint!!!

Mike

ZwitterND wrote: Too glossy for my taste.



Fool I had an early car with a matte finish, infact it was that KDF dull dark blue color and I still ended up squirting a glossy finish on it.

53 0val Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:02 pm

[email protected] wrote: REAL VWS came in matte paint!!!

Mike

ZwitterND wrote: Too glossy for my taste.

And they could all be period polished and waxed;...................and most were. :wink:

Brezelwerks Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:37 pm

twinwindows wrote: Rich's 50 wrote: Lidpainter wrote: twinwindows wrote: Lidpainter wrote: Just wondering if the top and upholstery were OG or reproduction.


Well the seats door panels and trim are real leather (hard to fake?) and so is the stay fast canvas top. And before you ask the Chrome deco strips are original items made of brass then plated in chrome.

I can go on and on but were talking about fake rear lids so try to keep up.

I'm keeping up just fine, thanks. My point is that even the most perfect 50 year old car has something on it that isn't original. It doesn't make sense to put off enjoying your car because you can't find or afford german metal when there are high quality repops out there. You should be happy that somebody took the time to make something that could pass for original. As long as nobody tries to pass it off as an original who gives a shit?

Homeboy makes perfect sence :wink:

I`m all for enjoying what you got Lid and I said that before if your down to roll a clone vert lid that that's cool also but if you want to make a car somewhat 100% correct a fake lid will never make the car complete.


Even now I`m starting to notice that when I look at a early vert at shows the owners are quick to tell me the rear lid is real.

I've also had split owners quickly point out also that their T aircleaner is real. I get around 3 emails a year from folks asking me if the $750 VW stamped T aircleaner they are about to buy is real or the KN piece?

As time goes by, as these items age, get dirty, dinged, develop a patina, forgotten about, they somehow become just real enough to be original, for a large majority of folks anyways. Lets just say five years from now many of us will be considering a purchase of a car, and we'll be left staring and scratching our heads for a real long time trying to tell what is and isn't, which includes likely fenders by that time also.

And theres the key point. When a select number of valuable items, items that can be easily voted "most likely to be exploited", or "most likely to add significant value to your car", such items ought to be marked or made in some telltale way to be distinguished from an original, with that information archived here on thesamba so that everyone can benefit and not just a select few "in the know".

I'm encouraged over the last few pages here that folks tend to see the value in marking these rare/valuable parts. Such efforts won't rid the hobby entirely of all the thieves, but when valuable items are marked with some forethought in mind, it could be done in various ways to make that conversion process difficult and very time consuming.

drscope Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:05 am

Original parts or non original parts.

Is a 100 point restored car original? The fabric was reproduced for the interior, the paint was reproduced for the exterior, and the rubber was reproduced for the in-between.

If you weld a small patch panel on an original fender, is that fender still original? How about if you weld a BIG patch panel on to it? Or go as far as to remake part of it?

All of these things are done during a restoration. Thats just part of what makes us all drool when we see these cars at shows. So fitting a reproduction panel really shouldn't be a big deal if the panel is constructed properly.

While in production, the stampings were replaced. So who is to say the new stamp is different from what the factory would have used?

And we all know there are differences in factory original parts that came out of different stampings, or had the sheet metal placed in at a slightly different angle.

And at what point in a restoration is the car not what you started with? How many parts can be reproduced, remade, reworked, restored before its a different car?

Many of the worlds top concourse cars have very little left of what rolled out of the factory doors.

So if the panels are good, whats the big deal? We outsource for other bits that disintigrate over the years. Why make a distiction on the sheet metal?

ZwitterND Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:12 am

twinwindows wrote: ZwitterND wrote: Too glossy for my taste.

Thats cos you got no taste!

I have a taste for the original, and high gloss wasn't original on early VW's. I was just stating my preference, sorry if I offended anyone. The car is gorgeous, I would sleep with my ex for car like that. I accept the fact that some people like shiney objects.

eurodub Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:10 am

my opinion is that this topic will never end. this has started as a debate in the need for this certain repro part, and i think no one that produces these parts asked us if we agree to manufacture the vert lid... they asked for support and not opinions on repro/og parts
there will be people who claim repro is faking the funk, and curse that, and people just wanting the looks and correctness at lower prices. who are we to blame one of these men? if it weren't for the repro parts some of us wouldn't have such beautiful cars to be proud of. some parts are impossible to find in good shape so repro is the only way.
each person has its scale of values and i am sure a guy that opens his wallet does a prior research or just hire an authorized person to evaluate the car's value. a 100k vw is more like an investment... or at least so it seems to me, a poor easte european guy. :wink:

vintagemx0 Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:37 pm

If it's the right shape, the right size, the right material, the right color... Who cares? Right?

edit-

If a car is 50+ years old and is 100% complete and original, AND in mint condition, well, how can it be such a great car? If it were truely a great car, it would have been used, abused, weathered and soiled along the way. Repro parts glorify the past and the pureists out there should not only accept them but embrace them! If they can prove that their car is 100% OG, then they would most certainly have someting that really stands-out within their little community.

vintagemx0 Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:39 pm

Bump...

twinwindows Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:05 pm

vintagemx0 wrote: Who cares? Right?

From me to you vintage

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=668916

Payments accepted:
Cash
Paypal
Money order/Bank check
Credit cards


Have at it!

vintagemx0 Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:46 am

That's a careless quote. I said "If it's the right shape, the right size, the right material, the right color... Who cares? Right?"

It never helps ones argument if quotes are abused in that fashion.

You could have just quoted me saying "Right?", and then posted a link that refers to something left. That would have made about as much sense to me.

Lind Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:45 am

does anyone here know if Karmann painted any oval verts in a turqouise color? I have an OG vert decklid, and it looks like it could be OG paint, but I can't ever think of seeing an oval vert in this color.

vdubinit Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:45 am

I think that all these newer repoped rare style parts should have some type of stamping somewhere like on a hinge or back spot of something defining a certain company name of whom ever made the part so that these repoped parts don't get passed along as OG parts thats just Bullshit business

so say in 5 or 10 years now after these repoped lids are worn slightly dented little rust spots and aged looking, I bet almost every lid will be sold aas OG :roll:

As anal as some of us are about are vintage parts I think thier should be stampings punched into repoped parts or some type of distugishing identifaction of a reproduced item!

eurodub Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:09 am

stampings could get replaced by new metal... whatever embosing/stamping is made, with careful skills and some tools it could be made "OG". the only thing that could not be faked is some kind of alien microchips inside the sheetmetal that could only be read with a special tool.. :lol: i once read that in the future anti theft could be prevented on cars by spraying a special-full-of-microchips paint all over the car's body, so no one can fake the VIN numbers and such... 8) :-s

[email protected] Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:42 am

Lind Your deck lids color looks just like the green 54 vert A freind has, in your pic it looks green.

jcannon Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:42 pm

I bought one of the KSR split vert lids and compared it to my OG split vert lid. The KSR lid is very, very good. Frankly, if I were buying a completed split vert I would not be able to tell if it had an original or the KSR lid.

Yustrn Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:20 pm

Lind wrote: does anyone here know if Karmann painted any oval verts in a turqouise color? I have an OG vert decklid, and it looks like it could be OG paint, but I can't ever think of seeing an oval vert in this color.


No it was probably that white color you see thru the turqoise then primer then white, then more primer.

66 dormi Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:09 pm

Wow I just flipped through this thread.... if theses parts were made identically 40 years ago by another panel company would it be og?

Hopefully we get nice fenders, hoods and maybe some 16' rims too!! :D

EMPIFLAKE Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:42 am

Shit the american car guys are already repoping the whole cars from the 50s ! The thing that scares me is where just one step away from that! and anyone that has a rare vw wont anymore and there goes investment of anykind!. Vert lids, fenders, hoods, quarter panels, split window sections, split dashes, window cranks, even buses panels are being repoped excellent ! Shit you can build a barn door if you wanted it bad enough out of new panels! Why spend 30k and have a ton of rust to deal with shit just get a stamping tool and restamp your chassi right? Well the reason Im in to these cars is there history and the feeling I have inside to say my shit was made in germany at the plant! I agree some things should be produced like heater channels and shit that typically rots! I admit Im considering a repop vert lid for my 54. Only because I just got the WW okrasa kit and Im thinken the rain trays wont clear the filters! But Im thinken of cool mods that can be done first befor I throw 550 at a repop lid! I really dont wanna do it I think its gonna feel like I have a prosthetic or something and to me the Og lid is a big factor in originallity to the car. If anyone has advice on that I woul like to hear it!! :wink: Anyway you cant stop aftermarket its as hard as trying to stop hitler :shock: Just have to live with it I think sooner or later we all have to buy aftermarket if we want to have these cars. Today guys are fixing vws that they just pulled out of a wrecking yard or a forest and those cars need some serious help ! So I think its a toss up!

splitjunkie Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:04 am

you don't like repro stuff yet you are building a motor with a WW Okrasa REPRO kit.

sounds like you like to pick and choose. :roll:



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