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Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:10 pm

I am in a similar situation. I blew a tire and rolled my van in Idaho about a month ago. Predictably, the insurance is treating me like a plastic love doll. I have also been working closely with GoWesty and they have been incredibly helpfull! Lucas wrote a letter to the adjuster with his opinion on the value and links to confirmed sales of similar vehicles. The adjuster pretty much rejected the letter and are sticking with their offer of $10,000 which is ridiculous. At this point, I need to do an independant appraisal. GW has offered to facilitate with their own independant appriaser if I want to have the van shipped to them. That is looking like a pretty appealing offer at this point since they are probaly some of the most knowledgeable around.

I'm sorry to hear about the van and am glad that you are OK. I can feel some of your angst for sure! best of luck with things.

Pete

Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:06 pm

The verdict is finally in, and the news isn't good. The final estimate is in, and the total damage is over $16K. My insurance company says that the van is only worth about $11K. They are willing to negotiate on the final price, I just have to provide some proof of investment. Fortunately, I have kept the receipts for every dollar I've ever spent on the van. All told, I have over $28K invested. Now for the next part of the battle. They said that they wouldn't accept an appraisal from GoWesty. I hate having to fight and argue with all of this, but if I want to get anything out of it, I don't have much of a choice.

Sigh...

Jared

Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:21 pm

No choice but to go fight for it. In $28K, you should be able to find enough to justify an additional $5K I would think. I feel for ya BCM, I was rear ended last week and have to go through the mess of getting estimates. The other driver has insurance, but wants to pay it out of pocket. Hopefully the damage isn't too high that they'll want to let insurance take care of it. Mine is nowhere as nice as yours.

Keep your chin up. At least your family is in good health.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:40 pm

backcountrymedic wrote: The verdict is finally in, and the news isn't good. The final estimate is in, and the total damage is over $16K. My insurance company says that the van is only worth about $11K. They are willing to negotiate on the final price, I just have to provide some proof of investment. Fortunately, I have kept the receipts for every dollar I've ever spent on the van. All told, I have over $28K invested. Now for the next part of the battle. They said that they wouldn't accept an appraisal from GoWesty. I hate having to fight and argue with all of this, but if I want to get anything out of it, I don't have much of a choice.

Sigh...

Jared

I would ask your insurance company what gives them the legal right to dismiss GoWesty as a source of appraisal. The emphasis is on the term "LEGAL." Additionally, I would ask them to discuss the option of an independent arbitrator to settle your case; that should make them a little more flexible. Use the law against them....since they are obviously trying to screw you. I mentioned in an earlier reply that you should get in contact with Seth at MasterCraft Motors in Santa Barbara. Since he deals in autobody work (for a major insurance company I believe) AND Vanagons, perhaps your insurance company will HAVE to accept an appraisal from him. At the very least, he would be a good source of information for your next move.

- Chester

Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:51 pm

I brought this up somewhere before, maybe this thread - not sure. It won't help in the current situation, but it may help some real nice van owners in the future so I'll rehash it....

I'm about to put a new motor in my '90 multivan. It's in great shape otherwise. Anyway this'll bring my investment to over 20k. I called my agent and he confirmed that my current policy wouldn't pay me anywhere near that in a total loss. He said it not being an 'antique' vehicle I could cover it for 'stated value'. I told him I wanted 20k in coverage and he said no problem. My premiums went up, but not double or anything like that. Hope that will help someone in the future. Probably not worth it unless you have a ton in the van like I do.

Anyway, sorry to hear you're getting jerked around. I hope it works out in he end. Others have done better. Keep fighting.

One final thing - the problem with just showing receipts is they won't value them at face value or anywhere close - at least they didn't for me. I just had a '91 volvo totalled a few weeks ago after getting rear-ended. All it did was dent the trunk but the wrote it off. I had put new tires ($450)and a new headliner ($350) literally two weeks before. I showed them the receipts and they upped their check by a total of $140. I ended up keeping the car as salvage and they reduced their check to me by only $200.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:16 pm

backcountrymedic wrote: The verdict is finally in, and the news isn't good. The final estimate is in, and the total damage is over $16K. My insurance company says that the van is only worth about $11K. They are willing to negotiate on the final price, I just have to provide some proof of investment. Fortunately, I have kept the receipts for every dollar I've ever spent on the van. All told, I have over $28K invested. Now for the next part of the battle. They said that they wouldn't accept an appraisal from GoWesty. I hate having to fight and argue with all of this, but if I want to get anything out of it, I don't have much of a choice.

Sigh...

Jared

What are your rights under the laws of California for appealing the insurance company's valuation of the vehicle? In Maryland I can appeal and take it to arbitration and provide my own appraisal. I let my insurance company know that I intended to take it all the way to the max on appeals if they didn't at least give me $17,000 for my fire totalled '87 Westy that had no rust, new paint, and an almost total mechanical rebuild. They came in with a value of $17,600.

It's worth talking to an insurance attorney if you have to. (Or at least telling your insurance company that you will get an attorney involved if they are not fair).

Good luck.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:29 pm

backcountrymedic wrote: The verdict is finally in, and the news isn't good. The final estimate is in, and the total damage is over $16K. My insurance company says that the van is only worth about $11K. They are willing to negotiate on the final price, I just have to provide some proof of investment. Fortunately, I have kept the receipts for every dollar I've ever spent on the van. All told, I have over $28K invested. Now for the next part of the battle. They said that they wouldn't accept an appraisal from GoWesty. I hate having to fight and argue with all of this, but if I want to get anything out of it, I don't have much of a choice.

Sigh...

Jared
Did you, during the time you owned your modified/restored Westy pay an increased rate for an increased value of vehicle?

What is the insured value on the policy?

Unless you took care of this stuff upfront, before the damage was done, you're SOL in California.

I don't quite understand why you should be paid a greater dollar value on your van than I would on mine (as an example) if we are paying the same rate.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:19 pm

GoWesty can not really do an official independant appraisal. In my case, they offered me their official opinion along with confirmed sales data. My insurance company said that at this point, the only thing they will work with is an official appraisal from an appraisal company (Oregon law). They completely rejected all of the info I sent them. I am just starting the process now. They completely freaked out when I told them I was claiming the van from their salvage yard so that my appraiser in CA could do it in person.they claimed that their appraiser couldn't look at it if I moved it. I said tough sh*t, you can't deny me the right to a fair appraisal. You can either send your appraiser to CA or tow it yourselves when I'm done. They changed their tune pretty quickly after that.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:27 am

There was som pretty good discussion on similar insurance claims problems on the splitty forum in the last year. One of the members is employed in the insurance industry, another is an attorney. It would be worth finding that thread and listing a link here.
Your agent might be of some help in this matter. "This is why you buy insurance" (remember the ad on TV?)
If enough claimants hold their feet to the fire, insurance companies might eventually have to be a little more up front about how they will settle with you up front and in writing.
Al

Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:33 am

BCM,
I recently upgraded my insurance to allow for custom or antique designation (1989 GL westfalia- no biggy) for the purpose of accidents with Allstate. What kind of policy did you have and if possible describe what the insurance company is arguing towards your claim. you indicate 28K invested but did you change policy to indicate such? so sorry about what happened but statistically speaking we are all very likely candidates for accidents and cost recovery from insurance on these money pits is a crap shoot.. Perhaps we could learn strategy from you for when its our turn at the plate.

you mentioned previously that there was a potential that gowesty would fix or the nearby paint shop would provide a service to you to save your van. Are you still considering this option? might be worth it if they are willing to keep your van from going "totaled." such a huge investment might be worth your time to keep it going it running.

Again sorry about what happened... These kinds of accidents brings out the worst mental retaliation and negative energy. The best you can do is count your blessings that your okay and the worst is over... Keep your dignity and keep up the good fight against the ins. company.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:52 am

BackCountry,

I had a caddy for awhile that got a scratch in a minor accident. Because of the relatively low values of the caddy, and the fact that the scratch covered several panels, it was clear that any insurance settlement would result in a total loss and check.

Here's the problem I had with that ~ it was a 91 Caddy driven by my retired great uncle who was a physics prof. Everything worked, everything was pristine, and the miles ~ 80K. I wanted to keep the car.

So I called USAA (the premier insurance co. in the US) and they told me unequivocally, that the insurance co of the at fault driver could NOT take my car. If I wanted it back in the event of a total loss, they would give it to me, with a check for the value of the car, with the salvage value (say $300 or so) deducted.

Since you're van still has plenty of usable stuff, I would battle them for maximum cash, then take the van and make up the rest by reusing the parts.

Best,

Lanval

Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:17 am

backcountrymedic wrote: The verdict is finally in, and the news isn't good. The final estimate is in, and the total damage is over $16K. My insurance company says that the van is only worth about $11K. They are willing to negotiate on the final price, I just have to provide some proof of investment. Fortunately, I have kept the receipts for every dollar I've ever spent on the van. All told, I have over $28K invested. Now for the next part of the battle. They said that they wouldn't accept an appraisal from GoWesty. I hate having to fight and argue with all of this, but if I want to get anything out of it, I don't have much of a choice.

Sigh...

Jared

I just read the whole thread...
Hey men, it's just metal, you should know.... your ok and that is all that count.

That van can be save.
http://www.benplace.com/88rouge/rouge_26b.jpg
http://www.benplace.com/88rouge/rouge_26.jpg
(van hit a dear)
http://www.benplace.com/88rouge.htm

http://www.benplace.com/alain_west89/alain_west87_25.jpg
(you all know the story about this one
http://www.benplace.com/alain87.htm

Anyway, 16k, it's pure insurance crap, they want you to go to a "official" body place that seal with insurance, they are thief. I just hate them.

Yes, you need a whole front end welded there but that can be found easily.
16K, what is wrong with the labor rate in the US???

I would do that for half that price.

Keep us up to date, i'm real curious about that story.
If you ever need advice please contact me in PM. I would be glad to help.

One thing i see here, ouff, Vanagon are still solid van, i'm impress.

That is what scared me the most wile driving in Mexico.... Hans from Vanaru had a very big one also over there.
http://poolio.net/zamorablog/hans-homeward-bound/

Good luck

Ben

Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:28 am

69doublecab wrote:
If enough claimants hold their feet to the fire, insurance companies might eventually have to be a little more up front about how they will settle with you up front and in writing.
Al
No big fan of insurance companies here..

BUT...

We, the consumers, need to do our homework.
We.. need to ask the right questions and verify that the insurance we buy covers us the way we want to be covered.
And it won't be cheap.

I have insured sailboats, value from $6k to 125k over the years. You simply DO NOT insure a vessel without an appraisal.
Same as a house.

I hate to see people think they get screwed.. but I'm going to suggest that when most folks buy auto insurance they ASSUME way too much.
We, unfortunately, are screwing ourselves by not buying the correct policy.

There are policies available where you can increase the value of the vehicle insured (over "book") but you have to shop and you have to hold the agent's feet to the fire, because they often don't know what to do either. And you have to read your polices.

The auto insurance agents are used to the typical consumer who just wants the cheapest policy available.. and then haggle over settlements after the fact. Thats obviously a losing proposition for anyone who restores a vehicle.

I'd recommentd that ANYone who has nvested some serious coin in their vehicle.. that they call their agent and disucss the limits of existing policies. And that they call them today.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:20 am

j_dirge wrote:
I'd recommentd that ANYone who has nvested some serious coin in their vehicle.. that they call their agent and disucss the limits of existing policies. And that they call them today.

That's all I was trying to say as well. Not saying they're always right and just to accept their offer without negotiation... just that forewarned is forearmed. When the renewal comes in on your van next time if you don't already know, just ask the guy - "Hey, if this thing gets totalled, what am I gonna get?" If it's way less than you think it should be, you can shop around for better coverage. It won't be free, but it'll be better than getting dramatically shortchanged on the back end. I don't envy the agent's job when it comes to 20 year old (and older) vehicles. It ain't like a late model stock honda civic - the values of individual vehicles can vary from $500 to well over original sticker price for the same year model. Adjustors aren't getting paid to give you as much as they can. Fight for what's right, but even better, know in advance what they think your van is worth. Insurance is a product like anything else - know what you are buying before you buy it. Drive safe everybody!

Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:45 am

From my experience, all the adjuster is seeing is "20 year old vehicle" and acting accordingly. My adjuster is completely convinced that I am just trying to scam him. Unfortunately, CCC is feeding him data that is leading him to believe he is right. This has definitely been a wakeup call for me and will definitely be doing things differently insurance-wise with my next van.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:46 pm

Oddly enough, I just got my bill for the 'stated value' policy cited above that will pay me $20k on my multivan in a total loss. I used Progressive Insurance. The premium is right about $1,000 a year for a 40's male in 98103 (seattle, wa) zip code with exc. credit and a clear record. My old premium for 'regular' insurance was about $700 a year so the enhanced coverage costs me about $300 extra per year. Also, I carry auto at higher limits than that the state mandated minimums - I'm just a cautious dude I guess, otherwise it would be a bit cheaper. Hope that will help with comparisons for anyone considering a similar policy.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:33 pm

What did you have to do to get the 'stated value' policy for that amount? Did you have it appraised for that or did you just tell them how much you wanted to insure it for?

Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:07 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: What did you have to do to get the 'stated value' policy for that amount? Did you have it appraised for that or did you just tell them how much you wanted to insure it for?

I did not have to do an appraisal. I just told the agent it was a restored specialty vehicle and told him how much I wanted to insure it for - then I gave him the VIN and he came back with a quote. I do have it in writing that I'll be paid 20k on a total loss. I guess there a lot of other options once a vehicle reaches 25 years old, but as you know many of us have vehicle that are quite old, just not 25 years yet. My agent said this when I asked what I'd be paid for on a loss with my standard policy and how much I could negotiate...

Due to the vehicle not being 25 years old, we can raise some coverage to the "customized equipment", but this doesn't include engine, tires, it includes rims, stereo, but it doesn't sound like that will work for you

I told her that yes, that would NOT work for me due to the fact that a very substantial part of my investment is an upgraded engine and a good stereo is pretty cheap relative to an engine.

Anyway... take this all with a grain of salt and do your own research with your local agent. Insurance rules vary state by state and I'm sure we hear different things even among different agents in the same state. I just thought I'd share my experience as it may be instructive for someone else looking to make sure they have enough coverage in a worst-case scenario.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:15 pm

OxygenDestroyer wrote: take this all with a grain of salt and do your own research with your local agent. Insurance rules vary state by state and I'm sure we hear different things even among different agents in the same state. I just thought I'd share my experience as it may be instructive for someone else looking to make sure they have enough coverage in a worst-case scenario.
Also keep in mind that lots of insurers will balk at "classics" or "modified" coverage if the vehicle is used as a daily driver, used to camp in, or is driven offroad.

Read the fine print and don't trust the agent to tell you what's what. The agent doesn't do the underwriting. He doesn't do the settlements.
He is only a salesman.

Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:43 am

Another update for y'all...

I sent Lucas at GoWesty an email last weekend, and explained my ongoing crisis to him. He came up with a very nice letter, addressed to my insurance company, explaining how high the market values of our vans are, along with some hard statistics of his van sales, and stated that the value of my van is between $35K to $40K. Then, he contracted for me, an independent auto appraiser, who will corroborate with him on the market value of my van, and is sending that to my insurance company as well. All he asked in return, is that if the van gets totaled, that he gets dibs on the salvage. Although in actuality, he has said that he'd much rather (and I agree here) see my van get fixed and back on the road.

The letters went to the insurance company on Monday, and now I'm just waiting to hear back. I'll keep you posted...

Jared