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Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:24 am

scott s wrote: .... what about the return? Just another T in the line ...
Yep.

Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:37 am

Quick update....

I've been looking for a suitable material to replace the existing fuel pump diaphragm. This has been an exersice in futility, but I think I've found it.

1) Inner tube rubber - no go
2) Chemical and oil resistant rubber gloves (cheap ones from the hardware store) - no go
3) Went to the safety supply store. They have gas and oil "proof" gloves used in the petroleum industry. $180.00/pair - no go
4) Finally..."Tough as Nails" brand gloves from Marks Work Wear house. 60% nitrile 40% cotton. It seems the nitrile rubber is the way the go.
I cut a piece of the glove finger off and literally soaked it gas for 24 hours. No breakdown of the rubber. No curling. no shrinking or expanding. One layer of the glove material is a little thicker than the two layers on the original, however I cut out a round piece to fit the pump and it pumped the fuel just fine.
Not sure if the flow is up to spec, but I will check that next. BTW this stuff is hard to cut. Tried to make a pipe punch by sharpening/honing the leading edge. It didn't even nick the material.

Next on the list is replacement of the fuel lines. I wanted to stick to original as possible. None of the existing were salvageable.

I picked up some steel braid covering at a Performance car parts supplier. Purchased new rubber fuel lines and slipped the steel braid over the outside of them. Secured the ends of the steel braid with electrical tape to stop the fraying. The plan is to use crimp style hose clamps over top of the electrical tape.

These are available from German Supply in Toronto, Ontario. Talk to Scott, he knows his stuff and so far they are the only supplier that have the crimp style clamps and the cloth braided fuel lines in the 5mm size.

So once the fuel lines are made up and installed, it will be ready for bench testing. (I'll probably test it in an open area of the back yard on the stone patio - with a blast wall?.) Just in case!

I welcome any comments or constructive criticism.

Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:34 am

This is the material that was used for the Fuel Pump Diaphragm. Its made by Watson Gloves from Marks Work Wearhouse and was $6.00/pair.

The nitrile coating is really tough, although appears to be very flexible. I can get about 4-5 diaphragm discs from each glove.

As you can see the structure of the material is a cotton backing heavily impregnated with nitrile rubber.

********************************************************
If you would like to try the material for your own rebuild project, just PM me and send me a SSAE and I'll give you a disc to try out.

Supplies are limited so its "First Come, First Served". Its free but you gotta promise to let me know how it works.

You'll have to put you own hole in the middle though. Because of its tough characteristics, I have not developed an easy way to do that.

This stuff is still in the testing stages so no guarantees on quality, practicality or your workmanship.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:36 am

Worked on the fuel lines over the weekend. As mentioned new rubber lines were covered with Stainless steel braiding. See pics.

Feel free to ask any any questions or voice concerns...

Steel Braid Sleeving package

Installing braid

Finishing the ends
Tape of the ends and cut the braid flush with a good pair of scissors. (They won't be good when you're finished) :(

Fuel Line lengths and sizes

Putting it all together

After installing the remaining hose clamps, I "fired" the unit up for the first time. A little nervous but I had the fire extinguisher ready just in case.

Everything worked fine initially. Let it run for about 2 minutes. Monitored the different stages and turned it off. It went throught the cool down phase OK.

Fired it back up but no "Whoosh" from the combustion chamber this time. One of the jets were plugged. Cleaned all the jets and the jet carrier.

Worked great from then on. The next step is to document the startup/cool down stages with timing between the stages. Will compare the test results with factory specs and post this for everyone.

Also built the wood saddle for easier maintenance and tuning.
Still working on an alternative diaphragm material

Stay tuned!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:48 am

OK, this is for all you analytical types out there.

We did some bench testing last night on the B2.

Two tests:
1) We wanted to see how fast it heated up and what the maximum temperature output was.
2) Document the power up and power down stages and the timing of each stage.

With a max output temperature of a blistering 180 degrees fahrenheit, one would want some sort of temperature control on it, rather than turning it off and on.

I tried to embed the images within the post but the quality was not there, so you will have to mouse click on each link for the details.

Here's the Time vs Temperature data and chart

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/460735.jpg

And the Power up-Power down stages and timing of each.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/460734.jpg

Is their any other tests or info that I missed?

Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:07 pm

So I Have a heater that looks Identical to the one you are refurbishing,.
LOOKING TO MAKE A BUCK?? Just wondering if I could send mine to you to get it back in working condition Doesnt need to be painted and all shiny clean, just needs to gimme some heat... :lol: will of course pay you for your work..
I dont know squat about this thing, but I am slowly learning. It is apparently from a 57 oval, (same year as my car) and I just want to get it up and running. Since my ride is already been sorta hacked a bit from the PO's and not all origonal, been kinda Rat Rodded, I am not too picky when it comes to "year Specific" parts. The heater itself looks to be complete.., I think it is a 6 volt, but my car has been converted to 12v already by the PO. Sooo,. ,. I think I remember you saying that you want something that is for a 6 volt.. I can send pics if you need em. Perhaps we can work a deal/trade. :P :P :P
Taylor

Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:02 am

Well I'm on to my next B2 rebuild project. I am developing the testing porcesses and have found that trying to use the existing fuel pickup with a gas/jerry can is not very safe and solid in its connection.

In one of the pictures above I built a wood saddle to hold the heater in place while it was being worked on. To it I have also attached a small gas container utilizing a dual outlet brake reservoir. It holds enough gas to do my testing and cycling of the stages. It is sturdy, safe and fuel resistant.

The dual outlet allows for the the connection of the fuel source as well as a connection for the overflow hose from the Jet Carrier.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:46 am

Now that's some smart thinking!

You're doing a great job restoring the heater! I do believe you'll be ready for winter...

Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:56 am

scott s is rebuilding a B2. He has some great pics, so I am including a cross reference post to his information.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=314546

Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:38 pm

64Bug, have you seen these? I think this is the fuel pump diaphragm you need:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=276228

Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:33 pm

Scott s, yes I've been watching the ad on a regular basis. It's little more than I would like to spend.

Over the summer I've researched some other compatible material sources.

The Marine industry uses diaphragm type pumps on their outboard engines and the material is readily available.
These are available on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Fuel-Pump-Diaph...enameZWDVW

Also been looking at the material used in the VW mechanical Fuel pumps for the 36 hp engine. I picked up one of these fuel pumps at a swap meet for 5 bucks recently . The material appears to be suitable. It has 3 layers sandwiched together. Gonna try the above options over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for the tip and link.

How is your project coming?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:37 pm

Dude, it's only ten bucks shipped! You've probably spent that much on rubber gloves, inner tubes and your time! :wink:
Mine's coming OK...been working on it. Look for an update soon. Hope to test fire it before too long.
Did you just use gas to test yours? I found an online article that suggests ethanol, but that's basically race gas or Everclear grain alcohol! My local speed shop says that stuff is hard on rubber seals and such, so I don't wanna press my luck. Guess I'll just take it out in the driveway and use gasoline.

Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:33 am

Yah you're right. Probably could have bought half a dozen that would last a life time. But it's the thrill of the chase. It's like an eBay auction for something that you just gotta have. You get caught up in the bidding frenzy. You win the item and have that overwhelming feeling of bagging your trophy. You get it home and sits on a shelf. I know some of you Sambanites know what I mean! :(

As per my above post, the material from an engine fuel pump looks very promising, especially the layers that were not directly exposed to the gas.

I just used straight gas for the testing. As an FYI, I sprayed some combustion chamber cleaner into the combustion chamber of the heater. It cleaned it out really well and took a lot of the carbon out. Any residual liquid cleaner was just drained out of the exhaust pipe.

I tested mine on our concrete patio. Beware, the exhaust marked the concrete, and my wife is still trying figure out where and how it got there. :wink:

Use a another concrete slab underneath the exhaust pipe.

Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:47 am

Did you run an inline fuse when test firing yours or just pos/neg to a car battery?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:03 am

No fuse, but in hind sight, maybe I should have? I used a 6/12 volt battery charger for the power. I felt that since it had built in overload protection it would be fine. BTW, It sure sparks when you short the neg and pos.

I need to come up with a better temporary way of connecting the charger to the gas heater. With the two leads always dangling there is always an opportunity for sparks. Not good around gas fumes. :shock:

In addition to the brake reservoir for a gas tank, I was thinking of also attaching a toggle switch to switch the ground connection off and on and quick connects for the leads. That way their would be no sparks.

How it might work is that with the switch in the off position, connect your leads via the quick connects from the battery/charger. Then flip the toggle switch. The switch could even be the large red emergency push button style, just in case.

Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:48 am

Not a lot happening yet on the second B2 Rebuild. But I wanted to share some thoughts on installation techniques.

As you are aware installation of the B2 requires holes to be cut into the body of the car to facilitate the different functions of the heater.

1) Fresh air pipe for the combustion chamber
2) Exhaust pipe
3) Air output vent into the passenger comaprtment
4) Return air ducting from the passenger compartment back to the air intake. (IMO this is optional)

I really hate making holes in the car and am trying to come up with ways to minimize the number of them.

A couple of thoughts on the heated air output pipe. Now i have not tried these options, but i am wondering how viable they would be.

1) Rather than cutting a large opeing underneath the dash, could the air output be routed to use the speaker grill. Of course the speaker would have to be removed and a connecting mechanism made up to attach to the back of the speaker grill.
This could work because the speaker opening is around 5 inches in diameter. The output air would would heat the inside of the car sufficiently with out blowing into the drivers face. It is high enough that the air would defrost the windshield better.
The disadvantage is what to do with the speaker if you have a radio. There are some options for this. For one I installed speakers in the kick panels below the back seat.

2) Again rather than cutting a large opeing underneath the dash, could the air output be routed into the existing heater tubing that comes up through the "A" pillar? One could install a "T" fitting into this tube that sits just behind the trunk hinge. It is only about 2 inches in dia, but the heater would feed warm air through out the car using the existing heating system. ie windshield defrost, floor vents and maybe a little heat under the back seat.(if the vents were open).
The disadvantage is the reduction of the outlet from 3" inches on the heater to about 2 inches on heater tube in the "A" pillar.
So that there would not be any "Heater" warm air pushed back into the fan housing, the heater knob/levers on the floor could be turned off.

Personally I like option two, but regardless of the option, you would still have to make the body holes for the exhaust pipe and the fresh air combustion pipe inside the trunk compartment

Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:43 am

These heaters put out a lot of heat! You wouldn't want all that heat blowing straight at you from the behind the speaker grill (I wouldn't anyway).

I think tapping into the exisiting heater system is a good idea, but it would cause too much of a flow constriction and would cause the heater to over-heat.

I wouldn't worry about cutting the necessary holes to install this heater. It's not like you are hacking up the dash for a modern radio. This heater is a "period correct" accessory, and as long as it's installed correctly it adds to the car. Besides, you live up towards the frozen north. You probably really do need the extra heat!

Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:53 pm

Hey 64 bug, Ive been reading your forum on the B2 rebuild, installation and heater testing. Great information. I just took posession of an nos B2 for my oval. Thanks for posting all the information, its very helpful for someone who doesnt know much about them. Whats the latest on your heater endevour? Thanks again. Ed.

Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:24 pm

NOS B2? It wouldn't be the one that was on ebay recently, would it?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:43 pm

elandjroe, thanks for the kind words about the B2 rebuild. If you have not seen it, "scott s" has a great thread on his B2 rebuild. He has some REALLY great pics. Gotta check it out.
What ride do you have and are you going to put your NOS B2 in it?
I have some info on the install process if you want.
At The Samba, we sure would appreciate some pics of your installation process.

My second B2 rebuild will be started in the next couple of weeks. It has been completly dissembled and the casing components are ready for the rattle can treatment.
Parts are all over the place!

At the same time I'll focus on the mechanical parts.

Good Luck on yours