TheSamba.com Forums
 
  View original topic: Iron Cross Page: 1, 2  Next
Kirwin Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:24 pm

NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.


NASkeet Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:12 am

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.



The Iron Cross was certainly used during the First World War, as a gallantry medal and in the absence of the specifically Nazi emblems, one would probably be okay, but it is generally unwise to tempt officious police officers or beaurocrats, who might otherwise interpret the laws and regulations; remembering that the Iron Cross emblem on the Luftwaffe aircraft, is officially sanctioned, whilst that on a VW Type 2, is not!

Kirwin Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:15 am

NASkeet wrote:

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.



The Iron Cross was certainly used during the First World War, as a gallantry medal and in the absence of the specifically Nazi emblems, one would probably be okay, but it is generally unwise to tempt officious police officers or beaurocrats, who might otherwise interpret the laws and regulations; remembering that the Iron Cross emblem on the Luftwaffe aircraft, is officially sanctioned, whilst that on a VW Type 2, is not!

Okay, this probably isn't worth my time, however, I have to call BS on this one. Show me the German law prohibiting the use of the Iron Cross on anything other than military aircraft/vehicles. I believe you think a law exists, but I don't think you have the proof.

vwbusbusvw Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:50 am

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.



The Iron Cross was certainly used during the First World War, as a gallantry medal and in the absence of the specifically Nazi emblems, one would probably be okay, but it is generally unwise to tempt officious police officers or beaurocrats, who might otherwise interpret the laws and regulations; remembering that the Iron Cross emblem on the Luftwaffe aircraft, is officially sanctioned, whilst that on a VW Type 2, is not!

Okay, this probably isn't worth my time, however, I have to call BS on this one. Show me the German law prohibiting the use of the Iron Cross on anything other than military aircraft/vehicles. I believe you think a law exists, but I don't think you have the proof.

The above is true on most of the bullshit that she posts. Don't waste your time on the jackass.

Basilbomb Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:02 am

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.



The Iron Cross was certainly used during the First World War, as a gallantry medal and in the absence of the specifically Nazi emblems, one would probably be okay, but it is generally unwise to tempt officious police officers or beaurocrats, who might otherwise interpret the laws and regulations; remembering that the Iron Cross emblem on the Luftwaffe aircraft, is officially sanctioned, whilst that on a VW Type 2, is not!

Okay, this probably isn't worth my time, however, I have to call BS on this one. Show me the German law prohibiting the use of the Iron Cross on anything other than military aircraft/vehicles. I believe you think a law exists, but I don't think you have the proof.

i believe she is right in that the public display of nazi symbols is illegal in germany, her mistake is thinking that the iron cross is nazi, which it isn't. it's german military of course, but nazism was a political movement and had the swastika as it's "logo", which made it onto many military vehicles. because you often saw the swastika and the iron cross on the same vehicle, it would be easy to confuse the two.

NASkeet Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:47 am

[quote="Kirwin"] NASkeet wrote:

Kirwin wrote: NASkeet wrote:
If you're travelling to Germany or Austria, then do not fit these Iron Cross (VW) decals, because displaying any Nazi insignia is illegal; liable to a fine or imprisonment!

http://www.decalsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=141

Although it was used in by the Nazi's in WWII, the Iron Cross isn't a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross has a long and proud tradition in Germany dating back to the early 1800's. The Germans even today use a version of the Iron Cross on their military vehicles/aircraft.

The Iron Cross was certainly used during the First World War, as a gallantry medal and in the absence of the specifically Nazi emblems, one would probably be okay, but it is generally unwise to tempt officious police officers or beaurocrats, who might otherwise interpret the laws and regulations; remembering that the Iron Cross emblem on the Luftwaffe aircraft, is officially sanctioned, whilst that on a VW Type 2, is not!

Okay, this probably isn't worth my time, however, I have to call BS on this one. Show me the German law prohibiting the use of the Iron Cross on anything other than military aircraft/vehicles. I believe you think a law exists, but I don't think you have the proof.

Last year, whilst watching a British television documentary programme, about the association between Second World War battle re-enactments (adults playing at being soldiers) and the activities of hard-core, ultra-right-wing, white-supremacist activists, I learned that public display of Nazi memorabilia (i.e. deactivated weapons, uniforms, medals, badges, insignia, banners and other materials), as part of the re-enactment or traders selling their wares to those seeking such items, may freely do so in Great Britain.

However, it was said that had they done the same thing in Germany, they would have been arrested and prosecuted under German law. Despite the passage of 63 years, since the end of the Second World War, Germany & Austria are still very sensitive and ashamed, about the involvement of their citizens and the hard-core Nazis, in the persecution and genocide of circa six million Jews, plus other ethnic groups. In Austria, it is an imprisonable offence, to publicly deny the occurence of the haulocaust, as one non-Austrian book author discovered to his cost!

I do not know the precise details of these laws, but until one does, it would be wise to tread warily, otherwise you might find yourself banged-up in an overseas prison, or at least heavily fined and the vehicle displaying the offending emblems, impounded or crushed. One hopes that penalties for foreigners ignorant of local laws, would not be this severe, but do not bank on it, because ignorance of a law, has never been regarded as a legitimate defence!

EverettB Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:58 am

Moderator note:
This topic split off from another valid thread as off-topic content.

Foxx Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 am

Quote: He who knows not, but knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him.
He who knows not, but know that he knows not, can be educated. Teach him.
He who knows, but knows not that he knows, is asleep. Waken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, is a prophet. Follow him.
be quiet and learn something.
the iron cross is NOT i repeat NOT Nazi memorabilia
Quote: I do not know the precise details of these laws, but until one does, it would be wise to tread warily
i suggest the same for you,.Until YOU know the precise details of these laws.
you need to post without trying to post as a authority on the subject.

ocdbeetle Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:17 am

I think VWoA would lock you up first... :lol:

ChesterKV Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:15 am



So this variation of the Iron Cross is obviously illegal in Germany but according to the Anti-Defamation League (USA), the "normal" Iron Cross is not without it's associations to the defeated Nazi regime.

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/neo-nazi_iron-cross.asp



So is the Iron Cross taboo ? It depends on who's using it is my guess. And having it on the windshield of a Volkswagen which has it's own associations with the Nazis, and driving around the German countryside.............is probably a bad idea.







Excerpt from http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/holocaust_antisemitism/Bazyler_doc.pdf



Quote: In 1994, Holocaust denial became a criminal offense under a general (Germany) anti-incitement law. The law states that incitement, denial, approval of Nazism, trivialization or approval, in public or in an assembly, of actions of the National Socialist regime, is a criminal offense. The 1994 amendment increased the penalty to up to five years imprisonment.
It also extended the ban on Nazi symbols and anything that might resemble Nazi slogans.




Here's an interesting article from Deutsche Welle (in English)

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2189625,00.html














.

DeathBus Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:25 am

It is not illegal to display the Iron Cross in Germany, But I would not recommend it.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/19/europe/cross.php

Typ311Dave Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:41 pm

Quote: Despite the passage of 63 years, since the end of the Second World War, Germany & Austria are still very sensitive and ashamed
See, this is part of the problem. It is time for the Germans, Austrians, and especially the leaders of the allied powers and the rest of the world to move on from "supporting their guilt". It's fine to be sensitive, but we fought a war, we won, they lost, we incorporated alot of their military tactics, weapons development, Saturn V, de-nazified them, and allowed them to become an economic power again, we're best friends now. Time to frickin' move on already, and let the bundeswehr present iron cross medals for bravery. It's already on their aircraft and Leopard tanks.

And as far as the add said, it was a Maltese Cross, it did not say Iron Cross although it resembled an Iron Cross more that the Maltese Cross.

ho-dad Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:52 am

So, can I wear my surfer's cross in Germany?


NASkeet Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:49 am

Foxx wrote: Quote: He who knows not, but knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him.
He who knows not, but know that he knows not, can be educated. Teach him.
He who knows, but knows not that he knows, is asleep. Waken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, is a prophet. Follow him.
be quiet and learn something.
the iron cross is NOT i repeat NOT Nazi memorabilia
Quote: I do not know the precise details of these laws, but until one does, it would be wise to tread warily
i suggest the same for you,.Until YOU know the precise details of these laws.
you need to post without trying to post as a authority on the subject.

I was not attempting to present to present myself as an authority on German or Austrian law, but merely drawing people's attention to things, which could unwittingly get them into serious trouble. It was inteded as a gentle warning!

People who have not previously travelled extensively outside their own country, especially where faiths and philosophies are radically different, niaively believe that what is acceptable (or at least not illegal!) in their own country, woud be equally acceptable elsewhere.

Many have discovered this error, at great cost to themselves; sometimes forfeiting their liberty for many years or even their lives in extreme cases! Prisons in many countries, are severely overcrowded, excessively hot or cold, disease ridden places, where beatings are common and some do not survive!



ChesterKV wrote:

So this variation of the Iron Cross is obviously illegal in Germany but according to the Anti-Defamation League (USA), the "normal" Iron Cross is not without it's associations to the defeated Nazi regime.

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/neo-nazi_iron-cross.asp

So is the Iron Cross taboo ? It depends on who's using it is my guess. And having it on the windshield of a Volkswagen which has it's own associations with the Nazis, and driving around the German countryside.............is probably a bad idea.

Excerpt from http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/holocaust_antisemitism/Bazyler_doc.pdf

Quote: In 1994, Holocaust denial became a criminal offense under a general (Germany) anti-incitement law. The law states that incitement, denial, approval of Nazism, trivialization or approval, in public or in an assembly, of actions of the National Socialist regime, is a criminal offense. The 1994 amendment increased the penalty to up to five years imprisonment.
It also extended the ban on Nazi symbols and anything that might resemble Nazi slogans.

Here's an interesting article from Deutsche Welle (in English)

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2189625,00.html

.

Thank you for the supporting evidence. I think that has now conclusively made the case, which should require no further contribution on my part. :lol:

Kuncle Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:53 am

ocdbeetle wrote: I think VWoA would lock you up first... :lol:


I think these stickers look like a Hot Bag of Ass...

Eaallred Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:26 am

The iron cross has been played out for years anyway. I wouldn't run one for that reason alone! lol

drscope Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:30 am

I never saw an iron cross made out of iron. Vinyl, plastic, silver, bronze, pewter, wood...but never iron.......

Foxx Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:07 am

NASkeet wrote:
People who have not previously travelled extensively outside their own country, especially where faiths and philosophies are radically different, niaively believe that what is acceptable (or at least not illegal!) in their own country, woud be equally acceptable elsewhere.

Many have discovered this error, at great cost to themselves; sometimes forfeiting their liberty for many years or even their lives in extreme cases! Prisons in many countries, are severely overcrowded, excessively hot or cold, disease ridden places, where beatings are common and some do not survive!

so suddenly Germany is suddenly a 3 world country?
beatings handed out and tossed into prison without a trial like South Africa would?
please. :roll:

I'll believe it when i see it.

ChesterKV Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:26 am

Foxx wrote: NASkeet wrote:
People who have not previously travelled extensively outside their own country, especially where faiths and philosophies are radically different, niaively believe that what is acceptable (or at least not illegal!) in their own country, woud be equally acceptable elsewhere.

Many have discovered this error, at great cost to themselves; sometimes forfeiting their liberty for many years or even their lives in extreme cases! Prisons in many countries, are severely overcrowded, excessively hot or cold, disease ridden places, where beatings are common and some do not survive!

so suddenly Germany is suddenly a 3 world country?
beatings handed out and tossed into prison without a trial like South Africa would?
please. :roll:

I'll believe it when i see it.

I thought he was talking about California... :|

coad Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 am

A cop won't arrest you for wearing an iron cross in Germany. He'll be too busy laughing his head off over how silly the dumbshit American looks wearing it.

Come on, the youngest person with memories of that war is in their 60's at this point, and they were pre-schoolers when the war ended. Do you really think the average German in their 20's or 30's feels any guilt, shame, or much of anything else about WWII? Do you think they even think much about it at all? I mean, when you go to Berlin do you walk around feeling guilty because American bombers destroyed 90% of the town and killed untold thousands of civilians? No, it's ancient history, so you walk around looking for a place to have a beer.

And as far as Prison goes, if I have to spend time in prison I'll take German prisons over American ones any day.



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group