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Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:33 am

I am not suggesting the house doesn't warrant an electrical inspection. Of course. And any questionable wiring should be done over; it's a life safety issue.

And any good house inspector is going to check every outlet in an old house with a fault tester. It only takes a second to find reversed conductors, open grounds, hot grounds etc.

All I am saying is that if the house was built then and the circuits aren't grounded, the wiring is probably perfectly serviceable.

Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:30 pm

The problem is our house inspection did not catch the splice in the wall using electrical tape instead of wire nuts, etc.

Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:12 pm

myzamboni wrote: The problem is our house inspection did not catch the splice in the wall using electrical tape instead of wire nuts, etc.
To be up to code the splice should have been in a box with a cover and not buried in the wall.

Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:31 pm

Major Woody wrote: And any good house inspector is going to check every outlet in an old house with a fault tester.
That's the problem.

We are on our 3rd house and on all 3 the inspector missed some very obvious things.

Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:44 pm

EverettB wrote: Major Woody wrote: And any good house inspector is going to check every outlet in an old house with a fault tester.
That's the problem.

We are on our 3rd house and on all 3 the inspector missed some very obvious things.

Most of those guys are fools. I'm doing about 20 hours of work at a million dollar house that was inspected and an "inspection report" issued. The reports are 99 percent copy-and-paste jobs. He saw that some outlets near a kitchen sink didn't have GFCI protection. He also reported that one of the disposal units didn't function. I fixed both "problems" by resetting the button on a GFCI outlet that was protecting the other outlets and powering the garbage disposal. :roll: Took me about 15 seconds to figure it out . Funny thing is, the disposal should have been on it's on circuit to conform with code but............

Some of his "recommended fixes" for found problems were simply incorrect and obviously generic in nature allowing him to hurry up and finish his report.

Now, the new owners are having me inspect HIS inspection report. :roll:

The moral of the story is that unless the inspector is an actual ex-contractor with a broad base of real-life knowledge in his head the report that the average person spends $ 400 - $ 500 for is only partially helpful at best and dead wrong and useless at worst. But that's the real estate industry for you.

- Chester

Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:49 pm

blarneyman wrote: myzamboni wrote: The problem is our house inspection did not catch the splice in the wall using electrical tape instead of wire nuts, etc.
To be up to code the splice should have been in a box with a cover and not buried in the wall.

Ed Zachary.

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:34 pm

I wouldn't freak out too bad about the splice in the wall situation.

Old houses with knob and tube wiring are all full of soldered splices buried in the wall, covered with friction tape. Many of those circuits are still doing what they are supposed to do. If I was doing remodel, would I remove them? Sure. Is it justified in every case? Nah.

The premise of this thread seemed to be that if the house had ungrounded wiring, the buyer should be anticipating that the seller should be making a concession at the time of sale for the rewiring of the entire house. To me, that is hogwash. It might be warranted, but not solely because the house doesn't have grounded circuits.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:22 am

Major Woody wrote: The premise of this thread seemed to be that if the house had ungrounded wiring, the buyer should be anticipating that the seller should be making a concession at the time of sale for the rewiring of the entire house. To me, that is hogwash. It might be warranted, but not solely because the house doesn't have grounded circuits.
True. But, it should be inspected to insure his safety.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:25 am

Major Woody wrote: The premise of this thread seemed to be that if the house had ungrounded wiring, the buyer should be anticipating that the seller should be making a concession at the time of sale for the rewiring of the entire house. To me, that is hogwash. It might be warranted, but not solely because the house doesn't have grounded circuits.
I agree. I don't think it is so much a "buyer's market" that you could expect the seller to do such an improvement when it obviously not necessary to live there.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:37 am

ocbugger wrote: You can't drive a ground rod and then use this for a ground wire for any loads unless the ground rod is bonded to the main service ground. This is an NEC rule and always has been. Here's why: The ground rod can pass current from earth to the load ground wire in a number of cases such as a utility company ground fault, a lightning strike, etc.

I have seen this done by tel/com people in commercial installations to pick up isolated grounds (well, their idea of ig's) for their equipment and then they wonder why it smokes at a later date. I have also seen homeowners run a wire to a cold water pipe from an outlet which is another accident waiting to happen.

Call someone who knows what they are doing because your life and property are at stake.

All you need is 10' of pipe in the ground. Now they run PVC after the 10' of copper ground pipe. I would never ground to the cold water line. It will eat your steel water heater up. Use the rod. Get a electric hammer and drive it in the ground.

As for any 2 wire system, if the ground wire falls off you are the ground :shock: We stop making steel tools because of shocks. The 3 wire system means you have 2 grounds.

You can do your own home just have a permit or a second party inspection. 200 amps is just fine. Gfi in the bathrooms and under the kitchen sink. Remove the rock and add TV, stero, and internet wiring. Drill on center of the studs and saftey plate. Have fun :D

Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:42 am

Terry Cloyd wrote: ocbugger wrote: You can't drive a ground rod and then use this for a ground wire for any loads unless the ground rod is bonded to the main service ground. This is an NEC rule and always has been. Here's why: The ground rod can pass current from earth to the load ground wire in a number of cases such as a utility company ground fault, a lightning strike, etc.

I have seen this done by tel/com people in commercial installations to pick up isolated grounds (well, their idea of ig's) for their equipment and then they wonder why it smokes at a later date. I have also seen homeowners run a wire to a cold water pipe from an outlet which is another accident waiting to happen.

Call someone who knows what they are doing because your life and property are at stake.

All you need is 10' of pipe in the ground. Now they run PVC after the 10' of copper ground pipe. I would never ground to the cold water line. It will eat your steel water heater up. Use the rod. Get a electric hammer and drive it in the ground.

As for any 2 wire system, if the ground wire falls off you are the ground :shock: We stop making steel tools because of shocks. The 3 wire system means you have 2 grounds.

You can do your own home just have a permit or a second party inspection. 200 amps is just fine. Gfi in the bathrooms and under the kitchen sink. Remove the rock and add TV, stero, and internet wiring. Drill on center of the studs and saftey plate. Have fun :D

Say -- WHAT?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:39 am

Icy did you get lost on the ground,rock,steel WH, 3 wires, or the metal tools

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:40 am

Maybe the rock... sheetrock that is...

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

grammarian wrote: Maybe the rock... sheetrock that is...

If he can't do his own wiring. He can remove whats in the way to wire. He can install the ground rods. NOTE where your main comes in from" overhead or underground. Sound out the underground, so you don't hit it.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Icy wrote: Terry Cloyd wrote: ocbugger wrote: You can't drive a ground rod and then use this for a ground wire for any loads unless the ground rod is bonded to the main service ground. This is an NEC rule and always has been. Here's why: The ground rod can pass current from earth to the load ground wire in a number of cases such as a utility company ground fault, a lightning strike, etc.

I have seen this done by tel/com people in commercial installations to pick up isolated grounds (well, their idea of ig's) for their equipment and then they wonder why it smokes at a later date. I have also seen homeowners run a wire to a cold water pipe from an outlet which is another accident waiting to happen.

Call someone who knows what they are doing because your life and property are at stake.

All you need is 10' of pipe in the ground. Now they run PVC after the 10' of copper ground pipe. I would never ground to the cold water line. It will eat your steel water heater up. Use the rod. Get a electric hammer and drive it in the ground.

As for any 2 wire system, if the ground wire falls off you are the ground :shock: We stop making steel tools because of shocks. The 3 wire system means you have 2 grounds.

You can do your own home just have a permit or a second party inspection. 200 amps is just fine. Gfi in the bathrooms and under the kitchen sink. Remove the rock and add TV, stero, and internet wiring. Drill on center of the studs and saftey plate. Have fun :D

Say -- WHAT?

Translation:
Sometimes people ground to a metal water supply pipe, but that can cause electrolysis in the plumbing and in the water heater, corroding components. It is better to drive a ground rod outside in order to ground the panel. You can use a power hammer to drive the ground rod outdoors if you are to much of a pussy to do it with a sledgehammer and a helper.

An isolated ground is only acceptable if it augments a service ground which terminates in the panel AND the panel is grounded.

One important reason for having a separate ground is that if the neutral wire (the white wire) becomes disconnected, the person touching whatever is plugged in may become the path to ground.

Terry suggests adding other low voltage wiring (data, stereo, phone, CATV, etc) if you are already tearing into the wiring for other reasons, because you're already going to be patching a lot of drywall. The reference to the wall plates is a reminder that if you drill through a stud to run wire, you must drill through the center of the stud and protect the wire at the surface with a nailer plate. That way if a screw or nail is driven into the wall later, it can't damage the wire.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:55 am

Eaallred wrote: My 1955 house has no ground.

I have a drawer full of those grey 3-prong to 2-pring adapters. Whatever, everything works fine at my house.

Probably into it about $10 for the lot of them. lol

Eric get it fixed. We like you :lol: Eric if the ground wire falls off of the toaster,or your steel tool and you touch the ground your going to get shocked. You become part of the circuit.

Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:10 am

Woody that was great except for the pussy and sledge hammer. I stand 6'1" at 240lb. I will give the hammer drill to my 7'6" 320lb nephew and have a beer :wink:

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:35 pm

Thanks for all the info.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:11 pm

The quote I got was 8500 to redo everything. With a 110 box?

Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:06 pm

thebucket wrote: The quote I got was 8500 to redo everything. With a 110 box?

So how many points?
You may have to haved the meter upgraded to go to a 200 amp panel- but that would be the power companies issue