TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rekeying a lock

Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:21 pm

I recently worked on one of these locks- not the one in my picture, but one that was pretty corroded, and I was having problems moving the bolt of the lock, and could only get it free with a little propane torch.

It didn't seem to hurt the lock (though it burned away the penetrating oil I had squirted in there), so it might help you get that little screw out.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:36 am

lastchancevw wrote: I recently worked on one of these locks- not the one in my picture, but one that was pretty corroded, and I was having problems moving the bolt of the lock, and could only get it free with a little propane torch.

It didn't seem to hurt the lock (though it burned away the penetrating oil I had squirted in there), so it might help you get that little screw out.

Thanks lastchancevw. I will give that a go.

Incidentaly this screw is on the bottom of a UK spec bus. They must have re-used the same handle for right and left hand doors. This may explain the corrosion on mine as any water that got in would hang in a drip at the bottom of the lock and corrode around the vital screw.

Cheers
Max

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:27 am

Eureka Lastchancevw! You cracked it. Heat is the solution!
My first attempt just looked like I was going to trash the screw, but a few taps on the screwdriver with a small hammer defined the slot a little better.
Then by heating the area around the itty-bitty screw to 'too-hot-to-touch' and then using the watchmakers screwdriver held in a vice-grip to give leverage, whilst leaning my (not insubstantial) weight on the end, I finaly managed to get the blasted thing to turn about a quarter of a turn.
This gave me hope, so I added a spash of WD40 (no naked flames at this point!) and persevered....and it worked. Out she came
I can now follow the tutorial on rekeying the lock.

Many thanks
Max

Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:25 pm

Well I may have spoken too soon.

Sure enough the screw is out.

But still nothing budged. So I looked at the pics you folk have put up here to help me and 'persuaded' the deadlock to come out by tapping it back and forth whilst drowning it in WD40 and heating it up again, and eventually it shifted and came out, but with a worrying small bit of extra metal embeded in its jaws.

The barrel still refuses to budge.

I suspect the bit of metal is a key component here and I have screwed the whole lock.

Any thoughts?

Max

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Orangeena wrote: Well I may have spoken too soon.

Sure enough the screw is out.

But still nothing budged. So I looked at the pics you folk have put up here to help me and 'persuaded' the deadlock to come out by tapping it back and forth whilst drowning it in WD40 and heating it up again, and eventually it shifted and came out, but with a worrying small bit of extra metal embeded in its jaws.

The barrel still refuses to budge.

I suspect the bit of metal is a key component here and I have screwed the whole lock.

Any thoughts?

Max

Ah.. UK.. that explains why the right side- up/wrong side down is backwards..

Hmm.. take some pictures and let's see if we how badly off you are.. If you get to the point that the lock or the handle is screwed, I might have some orphan sliding door handles with locks that you can use instead.

If you're trying to move the bolt part (the part that the barrel itself pushes, you probably can't move it at all unless the barrel comes out (which I take it didn't move)

If you had some metal bits come out- and they weren't part of the bolt, then it was probably the cog (?) on the end of the barrel, which is off center a bit and moves the bolt when you turn the lock (when the right key is in it).. If you broke that off, you;ll probably need another sliding door lock barrel, and I don't think they're the same as a door lock or rear door latch lock.

Yeah.. I probably should have warned you that you can't really budge the deadbolt without taking the barrel out at least 1/4 of an inch.

I'm not an locksmith, I only sort know this because I cannibalized some locks and figured out how to swap out the wafers.. At this moment I dare not do anything with an ignition lock (I can't even figure out how to get them out!)

Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:36 am

Lastchancevw thanks for the kind offer of the handles, but I suspect shipping might be complex.

I did not know about that cog, although it makes perfect sense. However there was no way that deadbolt was going to slide anywhere, it was SOLID. I used a drift and it came out reasonably easily, presumably with that cog held in its jaws. You can see what may be the cog in the photo's, it is the lighter round bit.

Listen, I am not worried about any damage that I may have caused. I couldn't use this lock before as I have no key for it. I now know that even if I had had a key made there is NO WAY that deadlock would have slid anywhere in a hurry (so that saved me some time & money). I needed to get the barrel out to get a new one in there so I had to go through this process. If it means I need a whole new handle then sobeit. The chrome is a bit pitted anyhow. I have learnt loads about doing the job along the way, so no harm there.

I would still like to get the barrel out, just so I know how it works. Any further suggestions as to where I should push/pull to get it out?

Cheers
Max

Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:56 am

I'd say at this point, reach for your propane torch, and heat up the handle where the barrel goes in.. this might expand the outer part and break the bond between the tumbler and the handle barrel

the only way I'd think you could get it out is to screw a fairly large screw into the lock slot and try to yank it out that way. You'll do a number on the tumbler, but since the cog is broken, it won't matter.

If it comes out, you might be able to salvage some of the wafers, but I don't think it can be used if the cog is busted off.

As long as the bolt moves freely enough and the chrome you see is still ok, you can probably use the handle just fine with another tumbler, as long as it turns and does what it's supposed to. I'd day sand the heck out of th corroded parts and maybe get some silver paint on it, just to make it move pretty freely.. though I'm not sure if there are any anti- corrosion measures you can take on that sort of metal.

What kind of metal is the handle made out of anyway? Is it some sort of aluminum alloy?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:29 am

OK I will get the torch out again tonight and go for it.
Watch this space.

Cheers
Max

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:09 pm

the search function is my friend! Does any one have a 71-79 front door cylinder up for grabs?

Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:37 am

heres a little slideshow how to on ignition switch tumbler removal.
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u207/rtbckatcha/ign%20switch/?albumview=slideshow
stuff isn't too complicated once you figure it out!! :lol:

Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:35 pm

RAD! i'm going to try to make all my locks work on the same key. i just bought a 1971 bay and i have 4 keys the ignition will go off anykey (want to fix), the front passenger, driver, sliding and engine bay doors have no working key. right now i have the locked from the inside the driver and passenger doors and rolled down the passenger window slightly and have locked it go the sliding door with a bike u-lock. 8) ...hah.. anyway thanks for the tutorial, i will post results.

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:15 am

Seems I should add what I know here. VW used the same basic tumbler right up to the last of the cabrios. there are only 4 different wafer profiles and as those last few cabrios are still in the dealerships for service VW will still sell you a tumbler wafer kit (I think, last time I got a set was around 2003). the kit they sell has 5 small ziplock bags. One of each type wafer and one of just the little springs. You get in the region of 25-30 of each so once you buy this you and everyone you will ever meet will be set for re keying vw bus locks. I am a dealer tech and I am still using the set I bought in 03 and I have PLENTY left.

I dont know for sure how much it is but well under $20 when I got mine. and it means you can replace the wafers with the right size rather that remove the ill fitting ones. It is trial and error to find the right combo but as long as you keep it in 4 little piles it doesnt take that long (as you can imagine).

Nothing wrong of course with the op's method, I think we can all agree that the door lock tumbler is only going to stop the most casual theif and even then only having one wafer in there instead of 6 will be the same really from a functional standpoint. But for those of you that still think of paying a locksmith to do it "right", now you know you can too.

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:34 pm

here's another method. Any drawbacks with this one?

http://biobug.org/index.php/2008/12/19/how-to-key-match-your-own-yakima-locks/

Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:57 pm

Thanks M8, I'm going to follow your advice. :D

Sat May 16, 2009 10:16 am

jtauxe wrote: I just recently completed a lock and mechanism overhaul, and have some suggestions to add. First off, I did the mechanisms, and I had a locksmith do the locks (all four) for about $100. I would have tried it myself if I had seen your post! But anyway...

The local locksmith frowned upon the use of graphite, and shuddered at the idea of grease for a lock lubricant. He said that grease would get gummed up with dirt and crud over time, and that graphite would do the same. He swore by teflon, and I must say it has worked beautifully.

There is a teflon-in-a-spray can for getting into hard-to-reach places. It has some liquid vehicle that evaporates, leaving a nice coating of teflon over everything. This I found at the local hardware store.

Another thing he turned me on to (and which I found on eBay) is powdered teflon. I now have a small bottle of it, which will be good for several lifetimes! This stuff you use like you would graphite, but it is much cleaner and more slippery.

So, my suggestion is simply to pass on the locksmith's advice: Use Teflon for a lock lubricant!

And, man, is it nice to have four matching locks that work smoothly! :)

I have a friend whose father is/was a locksmith. His advice was the same as far as not using grease or graphite. We are in FL and the humidity and crap just gums up the locks. He knows what he is talking about, and I follow his advice. Teflon sounds good to me.

Sun May 17, 2009 9:32 pm

Thanks for all the info. I just re-keyed the ignition to match the doors, and now have one key for everything. (I have already fitted an engine lid lock and re-keyed this). This was on the 'to do' list, but was hastened when I lost the ignition key. From the slide-show it is an easy job with the key, but a bit of a git without. I took it to a local locksmith who was able to sort it for a reasonable sum. They had tried before to remove the lock barrel without a key, but decided it was much quicker/easier/cheaper to make a key to pull the lock barrel out.

I will be getting several spares cut on genuine blanks at the next show the guy shows up at.

Al

Mon May 18, 2009 4:49 am

How can I get the lock cylinder out of my front door handles without a key. I only have the ignition key, and no door keys. Do I have to by new handles?

Mon May 18, 2009 5:27 am

damage565 wrote: How can I get the lock cylinder out of my front door handles without a key. I only have the ignition key, and no door keys. Do I have to by new handles?

It comes out without a key. Just remove the handles and there is a screw that releases the the spring and arm from the tumbler. Be care when you pull the cylinder out because the wafers are spring loaded.

Sun May 24, 2009 11:27 pm

I have a treasure chest lock, which is locked, and I don't have a key. Any advice would be appreciated.

Sun May 24, 2009 11:39 pm

As I search more... I find more...