TheSamba.com :: View topic - Can anyone tell me this size plz

Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:30 am

Hope this picture has worked (thanks to musclebus)

I wanted to know the over all width of the chassis from outrigger to out rigger / inner sill to inner cill

Thanks For your help

Sam

(Pics comming soon)

Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:00 pm

i could do with some similar measurements.
Help some guys get their ridez back on the road. :D

Sorry for the lame diagram but i hope it helps explain the measurements i need.

A - width of section between the rails
B - width of rear crossmember (rail to rail)
C - width of section between the rails
D - width of section between the rails
E - width of section between the rails
F - width of front crossmember (rail to rail)

G - Distance between front and 2nd tophats
H - Distance between 2nd and 3rd tophats
I - Distance between 3rd and 4th tophats
J - Distance between 4th and 5th tophats
K - Distance between 5th and rear tophats

L - Full length of a tophat
M - 'thickness' of chassis rail
N - height of chasssis rail
O - height of tophat
P - combined height of tophat and outrigger end (or inner sill height (same?))
Q - diameter of heater pipe (late split please, i know BD's are tappered)
R - diameter of shift rod hole

massive thankyou in advance
welder fired up and waiting :D

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:29 am

anyone been under their barndoor lately?
Built a chassis lately?

sitting twiddling my fingers. My samba cant progress without the mesurements. I dont have ANY mid chassis to copy and the only other barndoor nearby has its bellypans :roll:

Please help!

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:42 am

The part in picture you show was made by Classic Fab that is located in Colombia, South America. The company owner is on The Samba and uses the name Gerson http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17027
You could PM him through this site and I think he has a company in England that carries his parts. Classic Fab's website is as follows-http://www.klassicfab.com/marcos.htm he could probably get you the measurements you need and they would be metric and you wouldn't have to convert "Yankee" measurements. :D
Gerson is close to having all the parts to make a "new" barndoor and if you look through his gallery, he is in the process of building an almost new barndoor single cab using very few old parts. Hope this helps you a bit.

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:02 pm

if you are going to vanfest ?
I live in cheltenham about 10 miles away and your welcome to pop in on your way back.
Mines up on axlestands at the moment so you can measure it quite easily
Ben

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:07 pm

LDR and Sam,

I have one finally back on the ramp. I will be there tomorrow or wednesday and will measure it up and pm you. I know or think i know most of the measurements in my head but i will check before i send you them. I would have replied before but as the floor is in i need to check it on the ramp (even though i made one a few weeks back im very forgetfull)
One thing on your measurements is that all the cross measurements need to be taken to the outside upright edge of the chassis rails as thats the consistant part across chassis. The top edge width varies near the front and near the back in depth on an original and the lower often gets bent upwards/in and out.
Cheers

Mark

Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:25 pm

Your are a true gent. Thanks to all the rest of you for your help. I hopefully will have the chassis finished by the end of september (fingers crossed) well the welding side, still got all the running gear ect to put back on :(

Thanks again, Sam

Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:19 pm

Right - Rather than pm here is some of it. The measurements are not Exactly as the above diagram, i have gone from the middle of panels - may be a bit more accurate.

So the chassis rail width measurement at the rear torsion tube at the front edge of the tube where the chassis rails hit it the distance between the outside upright of the chassis rails is - 85cms.

The front section of the van chassis rails are parallel till the middle - measurement is 74 cms outside edge to outside edge

I forgot to measure the distance between first Top hat and T section ,G in the picture. -doh
H and 'I' are 30cms - that is centre of T section to the centre of the next one .
J is 31.5 that is from centre of T section to the centre of the Top hat section.
K is 18 cms, that is the centre of one top hat to the centre of the next.

N - Chassis rails are 10 cm high
R is approx 3cms
Q is i think 7cms on late vans front and rear, but barndoor is 7 cms for the front and 7.7 cms for the rear

L is 147cms, so all tophats and T sections are that length.

O - T sections are 4.5cms high, so Top hats must be the same.

One other you will need is the point where the the chassis rails start to angle outwards. This happens at 12 cms from the centre of Second from front T section, eg Tophat, T , T then 12 cms from the centre of that T they head outwards.

P - the outrigger is full height of chassis rail then heads inwards and its end height is flush with the bottom of the sill - Basically sill height minus the 4.5 =

One i dont have Sam, is the sill position, it sits flush against the wheel well forward closing panel, tab bent inwards towards the chassis rail but if you are build one away from the van or the closer panel is missing or rottern then you need the measement.

I will add M, G and the sill position. Also the lower edge of the chassis rail width.

I also need to check the end of the tape measure was at 0, i think it was ok but sometimes that can give a mm or two difference.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Mark

Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:47 pm

thankyou soooo much :D :P :D . you are helping save another bd. cheers

ive made an updated diagram to help us understand and be clear about whats been measured and where.

A, E and F are now from the outside of the rails. There is no B,C or D as they can be worked out from the angle. A is also now up against the torsion bar housing.

G-K are measured 'from the middle of panels', over the heater tube/shift rod.
(i hope this is what you ment?)

S = 'the point where the the chassis rails start to angle outwards'

Thanks again! =D> \:D/

Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:50 pm

Not exactly, :)

A is right
L is right
k, j, i, h and g are actually measured some the centre line of each panel so in the diagram all the lines would all touch (just to demonstrate), all the Top hats and T sections are parallel.
s is actually the next one along (so next to where you have the letter I)

e and f are the same measurement.

I will modify your drawing in the morning at work,

Cheers

Mark

Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:37 am

cool,
i was going to say, can i also get the 'thickness' of the tophat/outrigger/crossbrace (i guess there the same as they meet up?), so i can times that by 6, add G-K and get the total mid-chassis length. But i guess i dont need to do that anymore if your G-K's all meet up :)

can i clarify that measurement 'N' is the outside edge, and not the inside edge with the little extra lip at the bottom?

I also assume that if the angle doesn't take place until 'next to 'I'' in the next section, that measurement 'D' is the same as 'E' and 'F' ?

cheers

Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:50 am

Ok here is first draught, Scrap all the letters we used above i have drawn it out as i was struggling with paint :lol: and i got confused above.

NO Warrenties with this, other that the fact i will be using it myself so i will post up any corrections after i have found any problems with it.
It should give you a chassis that looks exactly right and fits.

Few Notes...

The first top hat by the bulkhead and the next top hat along should sit squarely with the B and C pillar, may be worth measuring this distance centre to centre on the van shell to see if it is the same as my measurements eg C+D+E+F should equal the centre to centre of the B and C posts.(from memory).

Several vans have been measured, all slightly different, picking the most original one and unwelded ones - just to note the rear 2 tophats also came out as C=31.5 and B =18.0 on the Kempes Original Chassis (extreme rust but measurable).

If you start from the centre and work outwards as two halfs then that should minimise errors.
The rear torsion tube does not sit in the middle of the chassis rail, the chassis will be at the wrong vertical height at the back if you do that.

May be worth not putting in the front cab end top hat in (or just making it easy to remove) till after its inplace to help alignment with the bulkhead.

All I's and Tophats have equal gap either side of the rails..
I will add M and P as i forgot to write them down. P does vary slightly near the front and back i think from memory to allow a tab on the section the inner liners sit within to be welded at the top, its approx extra 1cm.

Like i say im going to recheck and build this over a few eve's this week and hopefully fit it next weekend to the Kempes so any problems or corrections i will pop them in here. Please post up any amendments or needed measurements.

After that getting it in the right place front and rear and right height brings a whole new world of challenges. Figure that one out later :wink:
Cheers

Mark

Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:33 am

Cheers mark, thats a big help, there's no stopping me now, :D

Sam

Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:47 am

52panelvan wrote: Ok here is first draught, Scrap all the letters we used above i have drawn it out as i was struggling with paint :lol: and i got confused above.

NO Warrenties with this, other that the fact i will be using it myself so i will post up any corrections after i have found any problems with it.
It should give you a chassis that looks exactly right and fits.

Few Notes...

The first top hat by the bulkhead and the next top hat along should sit squarely with the B and C pillar, may be worth measuring this distance centre to centre on the van shell to see if it is the same as my measurements eg C+D+E+F should equal the centre to centre of the B and C posts.(from memory).

Several vans have been measured, all slightly different, picking the most original one and unwelded ones - just to note the rear 2 tophats also came out as C=31.5 and B =18.0 on the Kempes Original Chassis (extreme rust but measurable).

If you start from the centre and work outwards as two halfs then that should minimise errors.
The rear torsion tube does not sit in the middle of the chassis rail, the chassis will be at the wrong vertical height at the back if you do that.

May be worth not putting in the front cab end top hat in (or just making it easy to remove) till after its inplace to help alignment with the bulkhead.

All I's and Tophats have equal gap either side of the rails..
I will add M and P as i forgot to write them down. P does vary slightly near the front and back i think from memory to allow a tab on the section the inner liners sit within to be welded at the top, its approx extra 1cm.

Like i say im going to recheck and build this over a few eve's this week and hopefully fit it next weekend to the Kempes so any problems or corrections i will pop them in here. Please post up any amendments or needed measurements.

After that getting it in the right place front and rear and right height brings a whole new world of challenges. Figure that one out later :wink:
Cheers

Mark

Thank you mark :D

Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:10 pm

No Problem.

Revision 2 in the morning when i can get to my scanner- Some slight changes and some extra very handy measurements and which will allow you to align up with the rear torsion tube - hopefully.

Cheers

Mark

Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:41 am

Here we are with some of the missing values in and some new ones for the rear torsion tube, the spacing of the two small holes in the centre rails(just detail stuff)- those are only in later chassis rails i think as my 51 doesnt have them but my 52 does.
I also ammended the sill and rear Top hat distances after measuring the remains of the original Kempes chassis again. (only .5mm)

A pic also just showing the rear torsion tube position. I worked on approx 10cm dia for the tube and found a roughly 10cm grinding disk to draw round and shape it. It seemed to fit nicely over the tube when i tried it and i can add a clamp easily to hold it while i fiddle with the front. The lower bit can be shaped to a curve when its in.
Just to note M on the diagram comes to the front of the torsion tube hole(marked with the verticle line in front of the tube cut out)

I just want to add again, these are my personal notes, im building this this week on the Kempes thread so i will update any problems i come across or anything i have got wrong in the near future. Hope this helps

Mark

Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:39 am

Mark. Please can you post a picture or tell me a measurement for where the front frame liners meet the bulk head.

The thing is i didn't realise that the nearest top hat section to the bulk head lines up with the b post, it sounds pretty important so does it needs to be exactly in the right place? i think what im trying to find out is where the last top hat section nearest the front goes in relation to the bulk head. Mine is about 20mm away measuring from the fold on the front frame liners to the vertical fold on the top hat

Does any of this make sense:P ?

Am i just worrying over nothing

Thanks, Sam

Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:40 am

Hi Sam,

It did occur to me that i have not put a forward measurement on the chassis rails.

Um tricky one this, it is very important but it is very obvious where the front top hat goes if you build it in the van, but less so if you build it like i have. It is the one thing that is worrying me on my build. Basically the top hat fits virtually (minus the thickness of the bulkhead) against the unright section either side under the cab with the bulkhead inbetween.

What i did was to offer up the front section of chassis rail, align with the 3 bolt holes and get the curve section correct parallel to the rottern part, then mark where the verticle section passes the chassis rail. That is where i have put the upright part of the top hat (-1mm for the bulkhead) with its lower tab sticking past that measurement towards the front of the van.

Are you using Gerson front frame rails with the curve upwards in?
If you are i may be able to give you the point in relation to the 3 bolts that hold the rear front beam hanger.
I hope to get the chassis at least balanced in place this weekend and i should be able to check this all.

I will take some pictures and try to clarify it a bit more.

If its very urgent i can give you my measurement tomorrow, but I can not be 100% till i put my chassis in that i have this right myself.

cheers

Mark

Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:45 pm

I am in the same boat as you. I don't have anything to go off. I have replaced everything forward of the centre weld.

I am not really sure my liners are in the right place as the are from gerson and like yours so are my front chassis rails (i have put them on), Is there any chance you can just do these last measurements for me?

Measure from the rear torsion bar to the fold of the liners? my plan will be to double check that measurement then once i am happy with that i can put my bulk head in place then weld the top hat and outriggers tight to it ,then hopefully everything should all fall into place :)

Then measure from the bulk head to the reinforcement plate, i cant get a position for that as my buses one is shot

i hope that is it :oops:

Thanks very much for your help without ya my bus would never see the road again!

Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:25 am

Ok Revision 3,

No corrections just 2 new ones added.
I think all it needs is a measurement from somewhere to one of the rear beam chassis mounts bolt hole and its complete.

The X measurement was taken from a very original 53, and is give or take a few mm adds up correct with the others.

Y is just a quick measurement from the bulkhead lower to the panel with all the cutouts in under the cab.

Like i say, please dont take this as set in stone - its a guide only- finding 2 vans exactly the same proves challenging and sometimes the shell is the problem not the chassis

If i missed any i may have them jotted down.

Any corrections from anyone please post them up.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Mark