TheSamba.com :: View topic - 87-91 Westfalias

Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:23 pm

My wife and I are shopping for Westfalias. I have been looking for a couple months and have read the GoWesty model overview and know that this year range is what I want to get.
The prices go up a bit with the newer ones, but are they worth it? Is there an advantage to a '91 over an '87 if the conditions of the two seem to be about the same? The only differences between model years when originally built seems to be a design flaw in the transmission of the '86/'87 models.
Thoughts, advice, and opinions welcomed

Thanks

Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:22 pm

Owned several Vanagons, a 91 Multi, a 87 Syncro, and a 83 1/2. For the money I paid the 83 1/2 has proven itself equal to the others. I like the interior layout of the Multi with its table and rear facing seats, the Syncro for it 4WD in the snow, and the 83 1/2 for its simplicity.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:26 pm

I would buy the newest, best maintained Westy I could find and afford. It will save you money and be worth more in the long run. You've seen it for yourself when looking at the classifieds. If you buy one that's in good condition, you will spend far less keeping it maintained.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:14 pm

'89-91 have the best cabinetry, nothing major but its enough that if you don't have them, you wish you did :D Closet door opens with table in place, pantry (under sink) has stops on the shelves, I think 90-91 only that have the electronic ignition on the dometic fridge, '89 -up also did away with the crappy ass plastic chrome trim on the window rubber and used the black framed sliders (were always on the earlier weekenders) and '88-up has the extra weatherstripping on the front door which helped a bit with noise.

I have an '88 tourist Delivery model. I have updated the sliders and did away with the crappy chrome strip, pulled the shelves outta an '89 pantry, have figured out a electric ignition for the Dometic (but it won't relight if it goes out on its own). I have not been able to score a new closet though with the smaller door (well except for a burnt one from an engine fire :roll: ), which I would say is the one thing I really wish I had!

Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:19 pm

I bought a 91 in November, 1990. I liked the hatch release loop inside the back hatch, which was there to use if you ever needed to get out in a hurry (of course, you could install one on another year).

No real advantage, IMO - but I, too, would buy the best maintained and newest my funds would allow. And I wish I had my 91 back!

Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:47 pm

I'm partial to the '87 since it has the metal bumpers which are easy to replace if damaged. The fiberglass bumpers are very expensive and not very durable. If you do any off pavement driving it is also easy to damage the front air dam as well. These issues may not be important to you but they were to me. YMMV. :D

Other than that I'd go for the one with the least rust. Try to find one with none if you can, even if you pay some more for it. Once rust starts on the seams it is real hard to stop permanently. Enjoy whatever you do get. 8)

Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:23 pm

archicarp wrote: My wife and I are shopping for Westfalias. Thoughts, advice, and opinions welcomed Thanks

I agree with the others. Buy the best conditioned one you can afford. Don't sweat the small stuff - in time you can always add features and goodies.

The tranny flaw is the 3rd/4th gear slider hub in standard shifters for years '86 thru mid '89. I don't know if this was the case for earlier vanagons but someone told me it was for the '85's (?).

Interior appointments gradually improved from '86 thru '91. For example, many '89 thru '91's in the US came with A/C (if you can get it working) and cruise control (if you can keep it working).

My fleet spans between '87(2), '88, and '89. There's nothing the '89 has that I can't add to the '87 except possibly a/c which is doable but requires effort to find a system that will work with the vanagon set-up.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:00 am

I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a later model Westfalia without AC--ever.

Innoperable -sure , but a late model AC void Westy I think would be an oddity.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:04 am

I have a 1990 Westy with no AC.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:20 am

So what's in back in front of the hatch??

No intake shelf & nothing in front of it where the evaporator box usually is?

Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:08 am

Call me vain, but I shopped for '89-'91s because I like the bigger VW emblem on the grill and the one in the center of the hatch :). Also the blacked out trim makes the van look much more modern.

FYI I believe the transmission fault was in production well into '89; this is just going by what I've read though.

-Rob

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:15 am

I had an 89 Westy with no AC. Cabinet where the AC goes.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:41 am

PDXWesty wrote: I had an 89 Westy with no AC. Cabinet where the AC goes.

I don't doubt you but out of curiousity, do you know if it was a Canadian or even European import ? Or possibly a clean westy conversion ?

Most of the '89 thru '91 models imported to the US did in fact have a/c as part of an upgrade campaign by VW to counter the Chrysler mini-van challenge which was very strong back then. In Europe, not so many. I'm not sure about Canada but 'heard' they didn't receive that many a/c models either.

So ... that's why the questions about your '89. Perhaps it was one of those few that simply came without.

BTW, none of this holds for the crewcabs and single cabs - I don't know of any that came with factory a/c to Canada, but some had dealer a/c installs. I have one ('89).

Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:51 pm

Factory 89 Westy with no AC. Not Canadian or import. I knew I should have saved that cabinet!

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:08 pm

Thanks for the advice and the breakdowns. Best condition within my budget seems to be the consensus with the specific year being personal preference. The no body rust, cabinet differences, and bumper comments are especially helpful.

I have heard that the engines will almost always need replacement or significant rebuilds with heads needing help almost without exception. Should I expect to have to do this if it hasn't been done already?

Since I'm a newbie - does the a/c unit take up all the space of that cabinet in the rear ceiling?

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:18 pm

archicarp wrote: Thanks for the advice and the breakdowns. Best condition within my budget seems to be the consensus with the specific year being personal preference. The no body rust, cabinet differences, and bumper comments are especially helpful.

Agree, especially the part about rust, avoid it like the plague, two spots are common, left panel behind the stove/sink unit and right panel behind rear hatch window washer bottle (right back panel). Look for rust in outside seams and where panel meets the undercarriage

archicarp wrote: I have heard that the engines will almost always need replacement or significant rebuilds with heads needing help almost without exception. Should I expect to have to do this if it hasn't been done already?.

Yes, these are high mile engines. Ask for shop records and receipts, see when and who did work, if any, on the engine/heads. If done properly you might not need to do anything.

archicarp wrote: Since I'm a newbie - does the a/c unit take up all the space of that cabinet in the rear ceiling?

Yes, and some room in the engine bay.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:22 pm

Yeap the AC takes up all the overhead space. Hard to know what kind of engine work to expect, you can't believe what most seller tell you. I personally like to look for a vehicle with easily discernible engine or transmission problems and get a big discount on the price.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:20 pm

Terry Kay wrote: I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a later model Westfalia without AC--ever.

Innoperable -sure , but a late model AC void Westy I think would be an oddity.
I have an 89 Westy with no AC.. and it never had it.
Delivered new to Wyoming, then sold to a guy in San Diego, then to a guy in San Rafeal. Now me, in SF.

There were three days among the last 6 yrs when I REALLY wished it had AC.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:24 pm

j_dirge wrote: Terry Kay wrote: I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a later model Westfalia without AC--ever.

Innoperable -sure , but a late model AC void Westy I think would be an oddity.
I have an 89 GL Westy with no AC.. and it never had it. No holes in the deck where the hoses run in the back along the pillar.. no marks where the evaporator would have been, no hardware marks where the compressor would be, no evidence of the hoses under body
Delivered new to Wyoming, then sold to a guy in San Diego, then to a guy in San Rafeal. Now me, in SF.

There were three days among the last 6 yrs when I REALLY wished it had AC.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:04 pm

The 86 & 87 have a 1" higher ground clearance. They lowered the 88's to make them easier for a woman to climb in. It was in response to the minivan craze.

I would look for a low milage well maintained vehicle 86 to 91. Our 86 has a whole lot fewer miles on it (130k) than a lot of 91s I've seen. Ours is a weekender with the '87 A/C (the shrouding and vents are run farther forward from the rear cabinet) It came with the blackout window trim. When it comes to buying parts I've noticed that Syncro is a german word which means "costs a lot more".