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Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:14 pm

Siping (pronounced sipe-ing) has been brought up here a few times, I just bought a set of new snowtires at the local store and had them siped, I've had plenty of siped tires and will never run studs again, I have run several sets of studs too, fwiw. Below is a website that has some good info on siping.

Siping an all season tire will not make it quite as good as a snow specific tire, but it will make a huge difference in its snow traction capability, its certainly a good option for those that don't want to deal with 2 sets of wheels and tires for summer/winter.

http://sipers.com/sipers/index_large.asp

Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:01 pm

I just had my BFG ATs siped and no ill effects so far. I haven't had the opportunity to test them out in the snow, but maybe this weekend.

Les Schwab and others make a pretty convincing argument, and I really research the sh*t out of something before I go with it.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:53 pm

Siping tires VOIDS the warranty on the tires. I had first hand experience with this!! Les swabby screwed me over when the outside tread blocks riped off the tire right down to the cordes , full dia of the tire. Toyo would NOT replace them because of the siping!!!

If your looking to get a tire that is designed to have the little cuts in the tread look in to the nokian wr g2s

Dont believe the hyp. They make a killing $$$ off the siping machine.

jcl

Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:20 pm

a914622 wrote: Siping tires VOIDS the warranty on the tires. I had first hand experience with this!! Les swabby screwed me over when the outside tread blocks riped off the tire right down to the cordes , full dia of the tire. Toyo would NOT replace them because of the siping!!!

If your looking to get a tire that is designed to have the little cuts in the tread look in to the nokian wr g2s

Dont believe the hyp. They make a killing $$$ off the siping machine.

jcl

that is exactly why i did not do it. the guys at less Schwab told me they will uphold the warranty but ultimately its up to the tire manufacturer to decide if the tire warranty has been void. Besides, I went to the snow/ice maybe three times with those tires......

Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Thats the first I have heard of a siped tire having an unusual failure, I also didn't know about the warranty issue, something to consider.

Here I don't see pavement for 3 months a year as its covered with snow and ice, I know many people that run siped tires, with no odd failures, fwiw.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:52 pm

<<siping tires VOIDS the warranty on the tires.>>

One exlusion.

Discount tire offer's siping as an add on optional service, and I asked them about the warrantee a long time ago when I had it performed on a brand newset of tires.
They offered the service, they offerred the option, no warrantee exclusions.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:05 pm

Terry Kay wrote: <<siping tires VOIDS the warranty on the tires.>>

no warrantee exclusions.

from discount tire, how about the tire manufacturer? i think that is the loop hole.....

Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:16 pm

I considered getting a set of BFG ATs at Discount and they said they would only sipe the center of the tread. Probably to prevent what happened to a914622.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:06 pm

Dicount tire MAY cover the warranty as a store courtesy , but I know of no manufacture that will cover siping.

Let me rant for a minute about discount tire.

They recommend you replace all 4 tires, 2 is (unsafe) according to the poster on the wall!!! And they offer a 100% replacement warranty for 15.00 something a tire. I was told that even if you have a blow out with 40k on the tire well replace it. I politely said you mean replace all 4 right! cuz one new tire with 3 40k tire is unsafe and you wouldnt send me out of here unsafe would you???? I was told that's not how it works....

The tires i blow out were on a 914-4

sorry off topic but look The tire sellers are looking to make money and the siping machine is the biggest money maker.

jcl

Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:30 pm

I have never had a problem with taking a tire back to Les Schwab. I have had a lot of failures over the years, and they have always replaced them no questions asked. As for siping. If you are going to be doing a lot of spinning on a rough rocky surface siped tires are going to chunk out, as will any tire with smallish tread blocks. This is one of the reasons they make some off road tires with big blocky treads, they are rugged and don't rip apart while one claws his way over rocky ground.

I have been getting my tires siped for better than 25 years, and think they are a good compromise for many users. Siping is not always as good as studs, but I have seen times when stud where totally worthless and siping worked wonders.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:31 pm

slicing up tires that were not designed to be sliced... Hmmmm

Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Discount Tire has always been more than fair with me, always beat anyone else's price, Re-balances & rotates my tires when I want it done for NC, --even on vehicles I didn't buy the tires from them.
One bonus--they're 3 blocks away from me, --I can't beat their service or prices with a stick---

I've never had any problems with the tire siping, and it does offer some more grabation in the winter months--the wet too in the summer.

I don't have any complaints with the cutting of the tires.

You ought to have it done to your hoops first--then make judgement calls.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:06 pm

I don't think I've seen a new tire sold specifically for winter use that wasn't siped for at least a few years now. It's hard to argue against them. Sure studs slide around on pavement and won't help much in deep snow, and can be loud, but it's my opinion that studs will only improve any winter tire that will hold them.

Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:16 pm

FNGRUVN wrote: I considered getting a set of BFG ATs at Discount and they said they would only sipe the center of the tread. Probably to prevent what happened to a914622.

That's what Les Schwab did on my tires. The inner tread blocks are siped, and the outers were left alone.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am

One can always sipe his own tires with a utility knife or buy one of the multiblade siping tools. If you do it yourself you don't have to cut down but maybe 1/4 inch into the tread which will make the tread block more stable than cutting all the way down. You can also resipe a tire as the tread wears. You can also cut off a hunk of your thumb as I did years ago while resiping an old tire. If you go the self siping route please use care.

Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:41 am

Not to beat this to death, but this is a link to the Goodyear sight. They are talking about Semi truck tires but given the load requirements on vanagon tires some of this wisdom should apply to us.
Page 2

http://www.goodyear.com/truck/pdf/radialretserv/Retread_S12_V.pdf

jcl

Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:08 pm

Im running BFG MTs right now, and as awesome as they are off pavement, they are terrible on wet pavement and ice/hard snow, so i just bought a siping tool off ebay. Im gonna sipe the middle tread blocks only, but i hear it makes a pretty big difference for these tires. Obviously it wont make these tires anywhere near as good as a snow tire etc etc but i figure if it helps at all, i might as well give it a shot. On a somewhat related note, does anyone have experience with studded tires?

Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:18 am

Siping adds more traction surface area. That's pretty cool, but that doesn't really help in the snow. What makes a snow tire work well is the rubber compound. It is softer. Siping an All-season tire actually makes it perform poorer in the summer and doesn't do anything in the winter. I grew up in rural Alaska and the only tire gimmic that works is a good set of studs on a winter tire. The Nokia website has some great tire compound articles that if you're bored enough to read this, you'd also probably enjoy. Cheers.

Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:40 am

I drive vans in the snow all winter long. Not VW but, rear wheel drive still. I've gotten away with studless winter tires on a front wheel drive before (the softer compound actual snow tires). They work pretty well on a front or all wheel drive but, not great in all conditions. For a rear wheel drive, studs are the only way to go if you are driving in snow often. A coworker tried studless winter tires, that were siped, for his van a couple of years ago. They just didn't work well enough on a rear wheel drive van. From experience with VW vans in the snow, I wouldn't drive in the snow regularly without studs. The vans have too much swing weight around corners, too much torque when starting from a stop, and no antilock brakes when stopping. If you only drive in the snow or ice occasionally when necessary, I think you can get away with siped snow tires but going very slow will be the rule and it will be much more dangerous.

Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:25 am

tangstadt wrote: Siping an All-season tire... ...doesn't do anything in the winter.

That is not my experience or the experience of my friends, we average 500" of snow in the mountains here, fwiw. Yea, softer rubber is better, but the "more gripping edges" works in my experience.