TheSamba.com :: View topic - My generator to alternator conversion

Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:47 pm

So it started out with this thread.

when I started

rebuilt in 2003, eh?

I must have looked at 100 alternators at autozone and the closest fit I found was one from a Swift, but it didn't seem long enough for the strap to hold it in place. So I went to my local VW parts place. They sold me an alternator that they evidently use for type 1 and 2 generator to alternator conversions. He said he sold one to a guy in Mountain Home Idaho a few years ago who then came back and told him that he was able to get it to fit into his squareback. He said I could just 'do some cutting, or smash the hell out of the highpoints until it fits right.' so, um.... yeah.

So what exactly is this that I'm cutting/smashing to get this alternator to fit? This seems like a poor idea to me, but if it's not... fantastic.

Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:09 pm

I have seen a couple of type 3's with that bosch style alternator. I would hate to damage the tin to fit that alternator, also I really not sure that alternator is going to cool properly. Smashing that engine tin closer to the cylinders can't be good for cooling air flow.

Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:27 pm

you need to buy a ddb kit or find a geo metro 3 cylinder alt

you could use that one but cooling.. size blah blah blah.... its your money try it...

Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:49 pm

This is what 69sqbck pm'd me with on his conversion.. If you search his pics you can see his engine pic..

"Its a pretty easy mod. The hardest thing is making room for the large end in the engine tin. You will need to set the alt with the belt on in place and mark the engine tin were you need to cut it. Cut the tin so the large end of the alt will fit. Then rivet a thick piece of rubber on the under side of the tin so you dont loose any cooling air. Wiring is not changed, hook it up the same way you normally would. Alternators will generate power turning either direction unlike a generator. You will have to modify the hold down strap to fit around some of the exterior items on the alt but its easy to figure out. You will also need to make a stand off for under the alt on top of the fan shroud."

Then you will need to eliminate the voltage regulator.

Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:07 pm

j5josher wrote: you need to buy a ddb kit or find a geo metro 3 cylinder alt

you could use that one but cooling.. size blah blah blah.... its your money try it...

Nothing against the ddb kit - I'm sure it's fantastic, but it's $100 more than this one, and on this one the original mounting strap will fit perfectly without modification.

I the auto parts store was out of 3 cylinder metro alternators so I looked at the Suzuki Swift alternators. I'd assume they are nearly exactly identical.

The other benefit of this alt is that going off of this walkthrough I can skip MANY of the steps after step 8.

I guess my main concern is that the generator gets it's cooling off that opening at the bottom of the generator cradle. Well the alternator obviously doesn't have any and holes to accept that cooling air... does it need it? I have ample room I could punch a couple holes if needed, here's a pic of the pulley side where the cooling air would hit.

crazy guess, but I'm guessing that this is the side that needs cooling

Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:12 pm

cdgvw1 wrote: This is what 69sqbck pm'd me with on his conversion.. If you search his pics you can see his engine pic..

"Its a pretty easy mod. The hardest thing is making room for the large end in the engine tin. You will need to set the alt with the belt on in place and mark the engine tin were you need to cut it. Cut the tin so the large end of the alt will fit. Then rivet a thick piece of rubber on the under side of the tin so you dont loose any cooling air. Wiring is not changed, hook it up the same way you normally would. Alternators will generate power turning either direction unlike a generator. You will have to modify the hold down strap to fit around some of the exterior items on the alt but its easy to figure out. You will also need to make a stand off for under the alt on top of the fan shroud."

Then you will need to eliminate the voltage regulator.

Oh this is good info, thanks!

I'm wondering if I could just dent the tin in a bit rather than cut a piece out.

Interesting about the strap. It does look like I might need to notch it a bit in one area.

I will certainly look for his pics!

Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:31 am

I just hate messing up my tins..

They ain't cheap like type 1 tins.. and parts store god your lazy find a junk yard... in mine i found about 4 geos and 2 more honda things that would work...

and yea wild guess the end of the alt is where a big fan goes that cools a type 1....

Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:43 am

x2! I'd return that T1 alternator and buy something that fits.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:50 am

dirtsandwich wrote:

crazy guess, but I'm guessing that this is the side that needs cooling

just make sure you dont touch the end of the thing when its running might lose a finger.... [-X [-X

Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:08 am

It prolly wouldn't look bad if you ground out the extra tin. No hammers! :D

Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:10 am

yea cut it dont hit it might damage your jugs.... (mmmm Jugs.)

Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:38 am

Here are a couple pics of a TI 75 amp Alt in a TIII..

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2187/1581/5465790007_large.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2187/1581/5465790008_large.jpg

Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:07 pm

Here are some pics of the type 1 alternator install to go with my description

Right Side

Left Side

Looking Down

Alternator out, notice the cut out for the flange and the riveted in piece of rubber so you don't loose air over the cylinders

Modified generator strap

Stand off for keeping the alternator set with the right tension on the belt.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:19 pm

Few things that concern me with a Type 1 alt conversion:

1. Cooling the alternator. If you don't cool it, it will burn up! Cutting a hole in the cylinder tin seems poorly engineered to me. Keeping it sealed would be difficult.

2. Smashing down the cylinder tin. This seems like it may prohibit cooling air to the oil cooler. Would be good to get some before and after data to see if oil temps change.

3. Cutting back any cooling air to the oil cooler would also limit air traveling to the number 3 cylinder. Again, would be good to get some before and after data to see if the number 3 cylinder temps rise.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:21 pm

theres gotta be a btter way for making it fit.... lemme look at one i have and see what i can come up with.... not meaning to offend but, that hack job looks like hell. theres gotta be a better way with some inginuity and time im sure you can get it to work correctly and effeciently.... my money is still on a pick and pull rx-7 altenator, ill see what i can come up with

Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:31 pm

No offense taken!! Keep in mind that you don't see any of the (hack job) when the alternator is installed. I have been running this alternator for 10 years and probably 25,000 miles in some of the hottest areas of the country and never had a single overheat of the engine or the alternator :shock: This car has made multiple 6+ hour drives during this time.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:46 pm

Hey 69,
any way you can get a pic of the bottom of the alt while installed. Same angle as the first pic, but more behind the dist so we can see how close it actually is to the tins. Any thoughts on shaving the fin off the bottom of the alt instead of cutting the tins?? Thanks..

Chris

Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:01 pm

Sorry, no way to get that picture. IF you cut the flange down, you could get away with a much smaller cut out in the tin. I actually thought of this after the fact. It should not affect the alternator because this is not any of the moving mass. I would do this again with the motor out of the car and everything out of the way so you can make this a much cleaner install.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:32 pm

after spending about 2 hours looking and checking and more looking it would take alot of custon fab work to the front fan shroud to make it look like it belongs .... even then i couldnt advise for this mod.... it would possibly involve a smaller pulley and different belt ... and at that point the rpms that alternator would turn might not be best for wear.

-trevor

Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:43 pm

VWporscheGT3 wrote: after spending about 2 hours looking and checking and more looking it would take alot of custon fab work to the front fan shroud to make it look like it belongs .... even then i couldnt advise for this mod.... it would possibly involve a smaller pulley and different belt ... and at that point the rpms that alternator would turn might not be best for wear.

-trevor

no, it wouldn't require ANY fab work to the front fan shroud and it would be the same pulley and same belt. the only fab work is snipping and patching the tin for the underside of the backend of the alt.