TheSamba.com :: View topic - To keep Single Master Cylinder or upgrade to Dual?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:53 pm

Starting to plot my brake work on my 1960 Single Cab that has sat for 6 years now. Already have the hoses, will be buying some wheel cylinders as I am not sure my old ones are up to snuff, and figure I will also replace my Master Cylinder as again, it has sat 6 years or so. Not really sure it is a good idea to try and keep all the old cylinders and figure just replace them all to make sure I have good brakes.

Anyway, since these old buses have single master cylinder, I have been thinking of making it even more save and upgrade to a dual master cylinder.

So, just seeking opinions, if you owned a vintage 1960 bus, would you keep it stock and replace with a like single or do you prefer to play more on the safe side and upgrade to a dual?

Thanks,

TJ

Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:54 pm

For the extra margin of safety, I think it is worthwhile, especially if you're looking at rebuilding the system anyway.

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:01 pm

Dual circuit brakes are definitely safer for a daily driver. You'll be fine with the stock one though. :wink:

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:03 pm

Unless you're shooting for a 100 point concours restoration, I'd always go for the added safety. It's simple, it's quick, and it's not expensive.

The dual upgrade is explained in detail here:
http://www.type2.com/library/brakes/dualmas.htm

http://www.aircooledtech.com/dual_MC_upgrade/

Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:45 pm

Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:49 pm

man, my breaks give me so much trouble. Should have done the upgrade right at the beginning when the first problem occurred.

I guess an other advantage besides the safety is that if you work on either of the brakes only the front or the back brakes have to be bled accordingly.

Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:20 pm

Upgrades are good!

On my 67 , though, I am headed back to a single-circuit master cylinder. I think they are ok if you routinely check for leaks, keep the shoes adjusted, etc.

And there's that thing about the 67-only master cylinder costing a shade over two hundred bucks... :?

Good luck on whichever route you choose!

-Rob

Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:28 pm

Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:17 pm

azenlunatic wrote: Upgrades are good!

On my 67 , though, I am headed back to a single-circuit master cylinder. I think they are ok if you routinely check for leaks, keep the shoes adjusted, etc.

And there's that thing about the 67-only master cylinder costing a shade over two hundred bucks... :?

Good luck on whichever route you choose!

-Rob

I just sold my '67 and shortly before I sold it I replaced the Master Cylinder. I looked at doing a conversion but by the time the dust settled it was damn near the same price as buying a new German '67 MC. Going back to a single circuit seems just wrong. Why not do the conversion to the newer dual circuit if you are going that route.

As for the upgrade, yes definitely go to a dual circuit. Safety is something you should Never short yourself on.

Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:42 pm

Ok here's the 67 only mc: http://wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211611011Q

I paid about forty bucks for a 66-down mc/reservoir combo from a local parts guy that just wanted rid of it ("don't see too many of you bus folks anymore"), so I lucked out there :)

Procedure to do the retrofit: http://web.archive.org/web/19980110135148/type2.com/sermons/liturgy/66_to_67.html
(Thanks Mr. Hoover)

To each their own. My e-brake is well-adjusted :lol:

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

-Rob

Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:33 pm

I wouldn't consider it a hijack. You've added useful information to anyone looking to do brake re and re's. This is the retro fit I was referring to.

CIP adapter plate for use of a '71 + master cylinder.
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C20-4100

German '71 + master cylinder
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24-211-611-021-AAGR

plus a resevior
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-611-313-J

Grand total is 303.07 Cdn. Yes I know there are less expensive ways to do it but these are all off the shelf items. New German '67 only master cylinder I saw yesterday on Ronnie's Website.

http://www.bustoration.com/Master-Cylinder-dual-circuit-Type-2-1967_p_467.html

$225.00 US

Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:21 pm

I got the brazilian MC and it has never given me a problem or even the slightest leak. I think it was like 22 bucks.

Edit: Wow, and the adapter kit was only around 50 bucks when I bought it a few years ago!

Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:52 am

after i lost brakes going down grants pass, I suggest the upgrade, if you arn't going 100% stock

Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:19 am

I've never bothered with the dual circuit conversion.

I did lose my hydraulic brakes completely once. This was back in the eighties, before I knew that rubber brake hoses existed. One blew on HWY 101 between Crescent City and Eureka. The brakes got hot and stinky coming down a mountain, I think the hose stuck and the pistion stayed. The wheel cylinder was warped. I knew something was wrong before that trip, but I didn't know about hoses, they weren't in the Idiot Book and the Bentley hadn't come out yet.
I did have the hand brake. You can also downshift to help slow down in case of emergency.
I have not had any issues when the brakes are in order.

I'm not saying dual is a bad thing, but I haven't done it. The question in the poll was "What would you do?"

Mikee's brakes were not in order when he had a failure. He knew that.
It was not out of the blue that something blew.
So if you are the kind of person who will fix them 'after the trip', ya go dual circuit.

Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:53 pm

i replaced the master cyl on my 60 dd panel bus a year and a half ago. i went with the stock single circuit one. no complaints.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:07 am

Culito wrote: I got the brazilian MC and it has never given me a problem or even the slightest leak. I think it was like 22 bucks.

Edit: Wow, and the adapter kit was only around 50 bucks when I bought it a few years ago!

Out of curiosity and the bashing of brazilian parts....how is that MC doing today?

Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:05 am

CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: Culito wrote: I got the brazilian MC and it has never given me a problem or even the slightest leak. I think it was like 22 bucks.

Edit: Wow, and the adapter kit was only around 50 bucks when I bought it a few years ago!

Out of curiosity and the bashing of brazilian parts....how is that MC doing today?
No issues...

Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:33 am

Culito wrote: CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: Culito wrote: I got the brazilian MC and it has never given me a problem or even the slightest leak. I think it was like 22 bucks.

Edit: Wow, and the adapter kit was only around 50 bucks when I bought it a few years ago!

Out of curiosity and the bashing of brazilian parts....how is that MC doing today?
No issues...

I knew that they couldnt be as bad as everyone says...