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Thu May 21, 2009 10:24 am

I have a 66 bug that needs to have all its flex fuel lines replaced and I want to use the original style German cloth covered flex. I also want to use stock "spring clamps" at the ends, and not the screw-tight variety.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111209185

The "problem" is we have always had a VW in the family going back to 1956, and my Dad's an aircraft mechanic, and he swears the German stuff is a fatal fire hazard.

I know this has probably been asked a zillion times, but I need to know if this is a good choice, and if so why. Specifically cause there's going to be words over this.

While I respect my Dad's opinions, he may have picked this tidbid up in the 70's.. or 60's... or God, even the 50's and never "updated" his opinion, and what was true back then may not be true of what's on the shelf 40 years later.

He also loves the screw claps but tends to tighten them down so hard, the rubber extrudes, and when it gets old, it cracks ... you guys see where I'm going with this, right??

Thu May 21, 2009 10:30 am

Sounds like you shouldn't let your father work on the car ... :lol:

cheers
Ed N.

Thu May 21, 2009 10:48 am

fast Ed Canuck wrote: Sounds like you shouldn't let your father work on the car ... :lol:

Yeah, you got the drift....

Thu May 21, 2009 11:09 am

the German fuel lines can actually get tighter (after installed and used)than a spring clamp would......

Thu May 21, 2009 11:26 am

I have to cut them off sometimes. You really dont even need clamps. The American junk is to big doesnt fit tight and it swells up in no time. I have ripped apart many fuel filters trying to pull off the German line.

Thu May 21, 2009 11:27 am

I understand where your coming from, but I don't see that you have any other choice unless your Dad can fabricate a metal line with fittings for and in the pump and carb. That takes some good garage engineering to do. If they need to be replaced it has to be done.

What does you Dad suggest?

I would not use rubber line out of the hardware store. Ethanol's effect on the lines is hard enough and I think the woven line is still your best bet. I do think the gray line, if you can find it, is better than the black that is available today.

Good Luck. If possible, you might casually remind Dad that the carb inlet nozzle and the fuel pump outlet nozzle coming out are usually the problems with a fire. Not the line itself assuming it is kept in good condition.

Thu May 21, 2009 12:11 pm

Harris wrote: What does you Dad suggest?

That's part of the problem I didn't mention because I was looking for a thumbs up or down on the German stuff.

When he was working for the airlines, he had access to avionic quality parts, including fuel lines, and he used that in the cars. However, the "secret stash" is running low, and I am suspicious of it because of its age. I have a hard time getting across to him that "new" and "unused" are two different concepts. Yes, it may be unused, but it's still 10 year old avionic rubber.

Thu May 21, 2009 1:03 pm

How has the avionic rubber been stored? If it been away from sunlight and and in a dry place, it just may be ok, but I also understand you dont' want to take a chance on a fire. You might ty it for a day or two all the while checking it. I assume the line on there now is avionic line too. If the present line on the car is not sticky or mushy, then it has done well with Ethanol running through it--- if that is the fuel your using.

I personally would be more comfortable with old avionic line than new aftermarket woven. I know they advertise it as German, but it's not the German line we've had in the past.

First choice would be the older gray woven line
Second would be old avionic line
Third would be the new stuff.

Above all make sure your carb inlet tube is tight. If at all loose, remove the carb. Pull the tube out and clean it with a fine grit paper. Tap it back in with tack hammer until you feel it bottom out. Then, take a sharp punch and lightly "ping" 3 or 4 places around the tube. This will slightly deform the carb body material against the tube. I even put a little JB Weld on mine, but I've never had one come in over 40 years.

Thu May 21, 2009 1:46 pm

when you pull German hose off the fitting it shrinks like Chinese handcuff. If you push it off it will come off a lot easier.

Anton

Thu May 21, 2009 2:12 pm

i know where your dad is coming from. i was an aircraft mechanic for 10 years in the air force. the reasons that aircraft people don't like the braided fuel line is simple.

on an aircraft when the fuel lines become old/cracked they will drip fuel. that is a sign that they need replacing. they are checked very often. usually at least 3 or 4 times a week. jp4 or jp8 jet fuel is kinda like a high grade desiel fuel so it's kinda hard to get it to burn. the small drips are not really a safety hazard and a good warning.

now with braided fuel line, the rubber underneath can become cracked or torn and allow fuel to leak out. the braiding will absorb the small amounts of fuel till it becomes saturated. what this does is that it doesn't give an early warning (drip) that the fuel lines are bad. the braiding becomes so saturated and you can't see it that if a maintenance guy happens to lite up a lighter, or cigarette then it can become dangerous.

the catch is there is a huge difference between cars and planes. in a car (gas) it is much easier to start a fire. the normal drip from a plane is no big deal, on a car is a HUGE deal! the braided line adds a measure of insurance in a car keeping fuel from dripping on hot engine parts and igniting. with all this said, IF you run braided line, it MUST be checked regularly to insure it's not cracked or breaking down internally. if you don't check it, you might as well invest in a good fire extingusher!!!

Thu May 21, 2009 2:21 pm

I've never had a problem with the German braided fuel line.

As you stated, do not over-tighten the clamps, all this does is fatigue the ends faster and can cause a split. A lot of people here like the fuel injection style clamps. They are smooth and don't bite into the hose.

I usually take a look at the lines every time I change my oil. If the ends are cracking around the edge, I replace that piece. I'd say I only replace them once/year and usually only the ones in the engine compartment as they seem to break down faster.

Whenever I buy a car, I replace all the lines just so I know they are new. The small piece under the gas tank always seems to be about to snap off or is already moist with gas - no one ever checks that one.

Thu May 21, 2009 2:41 pm

EverettB wrote: I've never had a problem with the German braided fuel line.

Thanks Everett, the answer is much appreciated.

[Insert emoticon here for "Worshipful Awe"]

Thu May 21, 2009 3:19 pm

In addition to replacing all the fuel hoses, whenever I buy an ACVW, I install some kind of fitting at the firewall tin to keep the edge from cutting into the fuel line. I can't recommend it enough!

- Scott

Thu May 21, 2009 5:55 pm

Harris wrote:
.... I know they advertise it as German, but it's not the German line we've had in the past.

There are a few different brands out there. CRP (continental rubber products) makes the best hose and it is made in germany. a few years ago it was grey but now it is coming in black. it says made in germany on the braid.

there is another german brand but im not sure of the name, but the hose is much harder even when new.

and then there are at least 2 brazil made hoses, one being premium quality (junk), the other is "top leather" thicker than the premium quality hose.

There is also fake german hose made in China. The funny part about the china hose is there is an occasional bump in teh cloth braid. It will leak there. it appears that they joined 2 pieces together there and thats what causes the bump.

Thu May 21, 2009 10:18 pm

I have had New German Conti braided fuel line fail within 6 months. On a car that was only driven about 1000 miles in that 6 months.
I will not use it any more.
And I have a 50 ft roll of it sitting here.

Fri May 22, 2009 6:36 am

I think hoghead5150 hit it dead on here. The thing is, people think that just because it's made in Germany, it's the shiz..... Not necessarily. What you really need to look for is a spec like 30R6, 30R7, or some sort of rating for fuel, and that it be made of a material suitable for fuels, like Nitrile/Buna N. A fuel hose with a 30R7 rating is specifically designed for engines with higher under the hood temperatures. I think in an A/C VW, this would be ideal to help prevent any vapor locking issues also.

Now, personally, I run the ss braided/Teflon lined hose. This is only practical though if you have threaded connections, rather than a clamp on situation. I wouldn't use any fuel line w/o a clamp, weather it's needed or not.....ever.

Fri May 22, 2009 9:27 am

A little of topic, but where do you guys buy your fuel line? I am going to replace mine this weekend, and I was going to try O'Reilly's and Advanced. I have never bought the cloth line from these stores, and I'm wondering if they bother to sell it. I did buy some real nice cloth line from the Mercedes dealership, when I had a diesel benz, but it wasn't cheap.

Any recommendations would be good. I don't want to have to wait for it to come by mail, if it can be found local.

Fri May 22, 2009 10:17 am

Hotrodvw wrote: I think hoghead5150 hit it dead on here. The thing is, people think that just because it's made in Germany, it's the shiz..... Not necessarily. What you really need to look for is a spec like 30R6, 30R7, or some sort of rating for fuel, and that it be made of a material suitable for fuels, like Nitrile/Buna N. A fuel hose with a 30R7 rating is specifically designed for engines with higher under the hood temperatures. I think in an A/C VW, this would be ideal to help prevent any vapor locking issues also.

The Conti (as in Continental) I had was the right spec for Fuel. I worked in the fuel system industry for 29 years.
Also, the hose that I had fail was not in the engine compartment. It was under the gas tank. NO heat.
I will not use the external braided hose any more on customers cars. It exposes me to too much financial liability.

Fri May 22, 2009 10:40 am

I have yet to have any Contitech line fail. Is it possible you got a defective piece. Germans are only human you know. Maybe it was damaged in shipping.

I wouldnt want old fuel line on my aircraft.

Fri May 22, 2009 1:25 pm

Hoghead5150 wrote:

Quote: it MUST be checked regularly to insure it's not cracked or breaking down internally. if you don't check it, you might as well invest in a good fire extingusher!!!

Best advice 5150. I had a lady tell me the other day she owned 3 bugs years ago and had fires in two of them and that Vw's were proned to fire.

I corrected her statement and ask if she sued her mechanic. Well, she didn't have a mechanic and just drove it until it burned up. End of conversation.