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Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:39 pm

Last Friday on the way to a VW camping event, another driver was making a turn, swung over into my lane, and crashed into me. It was clearly her fault, and her insurance company (Geico) is taking responsibility, but now the work has to start on my part to show what my van was worth. They have declared it a total loss, saying that the damage is more than $7,000. Our vehicles colided on the driver's sides. The damage to my van is from just outboard of the headlight, to the wheel arch, driver's door, lower part of the middle panel under the camper inlets, and both driver side wheels, as well as likely suspension damage on the driver's side.

I have started to look online at various sites to document to the insurance company what similar vehicles sell for. So far, I'm looking at or will look at The Samba, eBay completed listings, GoWesty, Poptop Heaven, JDB enterprises, cars.com, autotrader.com.

My van was a 1985 Vanagon Westfalia, that Hershey brown experior with the usual brown interior. The interior was in very good condition, the body was very good except for a few rust spots (but very litttle noticeable seam rust), and a different color brown slider and passenger door. The skylight was new, the tent was in excellent shape. The van has about 180,000 miles on it, and the trans was just installed; supposedly a AA transaxle rebuilt with less than 30,000 miles on it.

If anyone has any leads on a replacement similar to mine, or if you have recently documented any similar vans for insurance/valuation reasons, I'd appreciate some input. I'm about to call the adjuster back, who has some numbers for me.

Thanks,
Ed Duntz in CT

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Tell them to write you a check for the $7K and sell you back the van for $1.

Then find a real nice one and transfer your good into the new vanagon. Part out the rest.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:24 pm

i would have to say the same thin have them cut that check and buy it back cheap and build a new one

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:37 pm

I went through this last fall with my 86 Weekender. The Insurance started by offering $1850 and totalling it out. I went to AutoTrader, Craigslist, the Samba, etc and got as many listings as I could find for Weekenders my year and faxed them all in.
It took almost 9 weeks of patience and holding my ground (no help from my own Insurance whom I have since dropped) to settle the deal for a check in the amount of $6550 to cover damages and an agreed actual pre-crash value of $13,000. And still clean title.
Stick to your guns and get what it's worth. Of course mine is not a daily driver, might change your situation if yours is and you need the wheels quickly. My 2 cents. Hi everyone.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:49 pm

Could you post some pictures of the damage?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:00 pm

i would have to say the same thin have them cut that check and buy it back cheap and build a new one

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:05 pm

do NOT sign anything or admit to, or agree with anything from or connected to the insurance company!

they will also lie in court so record all telephone calls

best would be to get a lawyer but that costs

definitely contact YOUR ins. co. and tell them what happened.

as for her ins. co. she committed a tort, so this will be governed by tort law, not contract law (unless your state has a special law that covers this) - do NOT play their game -- they WILL try to wear you down, refuse to pay, etc.

you can threaten to file a complaint with your state's insurance commission or hire a lawyer

yes, definitely get info on what it is really worth to REPLACE in the same condition - check GoWesty's site for info

see what they say then.

this will be a long hard struggle - they make it that way so you cave in.

Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 am

randywebb wrote: do NOT sign anything or admit to, or agree with anything from or connected to the insurance company!

they will also lie in court so record all telephone calls

best would be to get a lawyer but that costs

definitely contact YOUR ins. co. and tell them what happened.

as for her ins. co. she committed a tort, so this will be governed by tort law, not contract law (unless your state has a special law that covers this) - do NOT play their game -- they WILL try to wear you down, refuse to pay, etc.

you can threaten to file a complaint with your state's insurance commission or hire a lawyer

yes, definitely get info on what it is really worth to REPLACE in the same condition - check GoWesty's site for info

see what they say then.

this will be a long hard struggle - they make it that way so you cave in.

Howdy folks

I am so delighted by this post after the frequent babble and unreasoned, uninformed diatribes against attorneys. It seems that when the Big Bad Boys pick on us the lawyers are not so bad after all.
ouaaaff ouaaaff

Anyway, my point really is to inform that it is possible to protect ourselves and our rolling bread boxes by signing up for agreed/assigned values. After many years with my customary agent and insurance company and because of a change of residence I did research and evaluate various insurance companies.
My van is now insured for US $10,000 no question asked in case of total loss.
I shall also point out that different agent even for the same company WILL make a difference as I received extremely different estimates by two agents from the same company in the same city for the same vehicle.

One last thing, I did and would recommend to anyone to stay away, far away from the now almost government owned or financed insurance companies.

The tovaritch in Washingtongrad will send to some of us the crumbs and keep the cakes for their own comrads.
How much did AIG (and others) get ?

Now sing with me:

This will be the final
and decisive battle.
With the Internationale
the human race will arise.

ouaaaaffff ouaaafffff :evil:

Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:12 am

I asked my Ins. company (Progressive) if we could settle on a predetermined total loss payment and price it accordingly, they said no.

They said the only thing I could do to raise the sum paid is add aftermarket product insurance up to a certain amount. I really don't have any aftermarket stuff on the bus. I haven't perused it any more since that conversation.

What company allow you to set the insured value of you vehicle?

Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:47 am

hey guys, agt for 17yrs here..to avoid this issue you need to do whats called a "Stated Value Policy" most companies offer these with a current appraisal

Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:55 am

hero419 wrote: I asked my Ins. company (Progressive) if we could settle on a predetermined total loss payment and price it accordingly, they said no.

They said the only thing I could do to raise the sum paid is add aftermarket product insurance up to a certain amount. I really don't have any aftermarket stuff on the bus. I haven't perused it any more since that conversation.

What company allow you to set the insured value of you vehicle?

Hi,

AAA

and Yes I was as surprised as you may be reading this as my first contact with another branch/agent for AAA was **to me** a total rip off. So it would seem the key is to find an agent who will work with you to get YOU the best deal and not rip you off.
I shall add that not only this person worked out this deal for me but also got on the phone and arranged a deal to cover my 66 Austin with ANOTHER company at prices defying my better knowledge and also for agreed/assigned value.
So not only the location seems to make a difference but also the person you deal with.
I am wondering if those employees get a bonus or some interest based on the price they get you to pay as the only other logical explanation would be pure laziness, ignorance, greed or nonchalance on the part of some.

If you were in my part of the desert I would give you the name and address of that very valuable connection and as we say here... life is a gamble :lol:

Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:23 am

Ed, I'd like to say I am sorry for your loss. I am probably asking for trouble, but I only carry PIP and Liability on my Vanagon Camper. It spends most its time sitting in the garage. I have been in and out of the Automotive business a good part of my life. Car insurance just never seems to work out for anyone other than the insurance company. You are getting good advice. When I did put my Vanagon on the road after the conversion, I opted for adding it to our automotive policy. I did look into collector car insurance. It was available and I believe you could insure it for an agreed upon amount. Since the body work was not done and an inspection is part of the process, I decided to pass for now and just meet the Fla state requirements.

Too many of us, our VW's are priceless, and unreplaceable. I will be devestated if mine is wrecked, especially if it is not my fault. I asked for the pictures, because I have seen some quality repairs on what would have been consider totaled vehicles. The idea of that they are never the same is not accurate. It depends on the talent and expertise of the person doing the repair. They are far and few, but do exist. Again, I am sorry for your/our loss. :cry:

Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:00 am

I was able to get a stated value policy quite easily without an appraisal from my company, Encompass. Small company, but we had a sizable claim on our homeowners last year and they were good to deal with. Of course our rates went up, but that's how it works.

After getting this policy, we asked our agent to shop around. She called back and said that she was surprised to learn that most companies don't issue stated value coverage. Maybe they will with an appraisal.

Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:41 am

Update: I don't have any pictures yet, as when the collision happened, I wasn't able to get close to the van to take pictures, and it's been hectic aver since. I was going to stop by the body shop today to snap a few, but I forgot. Hopefully tomorrow if it's not raining as hard as today.

Now shortly after I posted here, I got a call from GEICO, the insurer of the woman who caused the collision. They offered me $8,669.74, less $1,000 salvage value on my van if I want to keep it. I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't start with an extremely low offer, but I think there is still room to negotiate, based on a few things. From what I understand of the law, I have the right to be "made whole" after the collision, that is to come out with an equally valuable and comparable vehicle in my possession. I should not be required to spend my own money to get another van. There are no similar Vanagons within many hours of me, and I would have to hire inspection services and have a van shipped to me, possibly adding another $1,500 or more.

The other thing is that in early spring I installed a recently rebuilt transmission, and the tent, skylight, and camper inlets are relatively new. It would cost me more money to install these things in a new van to potentially put it in similar condition as mine.

I'm not trying to come into a windfall, just to have what I had before.

Ed

Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:02 am

As stated earlier a " stated value policy" is in any Westfalia and or Syncro owners best interest.
The "value" comes from an independent appraiser of the owners choice.
I find them in Hemming's Motor News.

Hope this helps.

dylan

Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:11 am

I will certainly consider different coverage on the van in the future; I had no collision before. My insurance company is not involved in the value of the van. The other driver was at fault for the collision and has accepted finalcial responsibility. The haggling comes now over the value of my van.

Ed

Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:33 am

buildyourown wrote: I was able to get a stated value policy quite easily without an appraisal from my company, Encompass. Small company, but we had a sizable claim on our homeowners last year and they were good to deal with. Of course our rates went up, but that's how it works.

After getting this policy, we asked our agent to shop around. She called back and said that she was surprised to learn that most companies don't issue stated value coverage. Maybe they will with an appraisal.
Stated value policies suck almost as much as regular insurance. You STILL have to prove it is worth that much.

Agreed value policies are the no questions asked version of the stated value policy.

If you are in California, I can help with this.

(FYI: Most states have a company that can help with an agreed value policy. Ain't no big thang....)

-Walt

Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:43 am

OK, first - none of this helps him b/c [1] the accident already happened, and )probably) [2] another driver was at fault

But...

stated or stated value policy can differ - be sure you know what you are getting

Haggerty does these for sports cars, no idea if they will do a Vanagon - any co. will want to have statistics on the particular vehicle so they can figure out how to set the rates...

Check with the ins. commission in your state - most rate ins. co.s - you want to avoid avoid avoid the ones with high consumer complaint rates.

I use Amica, which is much better than most - in terms of Oregon ratings and my own experience.

another tip - if they have "agents" locally - you are gonna be paying for that

BTW - I am more scientist than attorney - and don't do insurance law - I only sue the govt. to protect endangered species, nothin' else...

Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:46 am

several other long posts on this. Search "insurance and value"

I have Hagerty insurance on my Alfa. It has to be 25 years old and not a daily driver. I pay $100 a year for full coverage stated value.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=346550

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=310813

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301989

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=283432

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281006

Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:14 pm

Well, I read the many posts on this related topics as suggested, and came to this decision: The insurance company's initial offer wasn't that bad, and, while I did try to get them to come up a bit, it wasn't so low that I thought I had to drag out the process. Of course I don't want to be cheated, but I'd also like to fix or replace soon so I can get on with my camping season.

Their initial offer was $8,669.74, with a buy-back price of $1,000. I countered with $9,500 with me keeping the van.

They came back with these three offers:
$9,200 to me, they take van
$8,200 to me, I keep van with salvage title
$7,600 to me, I keep van with clear title

I got them to increase their price to $8,500, I keep the van, salvage title. I agreed to this- on the one hand, I'd have the van for parts, or, if I wanted to fix it, would have a little extra for re-inspection hassles with a salvage title. But the other two options seem fine, too. $9,200 is enough to get a nice Westfalia with some left over for repairs. $7,600 is not as much, but if I wanted to repair it, I wouldn't have to worry about the salvage title.

I was pleasantly surprised at their initial offer; I worried that they'd offer me $2,500 and I'd have a big fight on my hands. I know I could have tried for more, but since the initial offer was not out of line, what I did seemed to be the right thing to do to get moving on a replacement without inconveniencing myself too much.

I guess I could change my mind over the weekend and take one of the other offers, but I have tentatively decided on the $8,500 with me keeping the van with a salvage title.

Thanks for all the input so far. I'm happy to hear opinions on my decision.

Also, just to clarify in case I didn't put it in the original post: I live in CT and have Progressive, just liability. Other insured lives in NY, was at fault, has Geico. Collision happened in NY. Van is at local body shop in CT.

Ed in CT