TheSamba.com :: View topic - Repairing a flat back (55-57) middle seat springs

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:09 pm

Anyone have any tips on repairing flat back middle seat springs? I have a middle seat with a severly rusted fold down section.

Thanks in advance.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:12 pm

I'm repairing one as well and could use some advice. I've been told that you shouldn't weld the spring steel as it will likely break, unless you re-heat treat it? I'm replacing 2 springs and one of the hoops on the end. FYI - I got a bay window front seat at a junkyard for $5. The hoop radiuses are the same so it will just be a matter of grafting everything in.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:31 pm

I repaired a few broken coils on my flat back recently. I ended up using a short bit (1 inch or so) of hard brake line, curved it to match the curvature of the coil, used it fix the break (slide the broken spring ends into the metal pipe) and crimped it down. Worked like a champ...wish I'd taken pics.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:37 pm

^ Dang, that's a good idea. I'm glad this thread came up as I am going to be modifying a bug rear seat for my DKW.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:42 pm

^^great idea. I think crimping is the way to go on these. I think for my hoop section I'm going to lap the two pieces and steel rivet them together. Blast, powder coat and cover and all will be good! pictures forthcoming. 8)

Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:16 pm

Maybe a picture would help, I think "Repair" might not have been the right choice of terms...

And the upholstery channel in the back...

Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:27 pm

That seat is a little rough... :shock:

Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:47 pm

Is this the middle seat that was for sale in the classifieds? Looks very familiar...

Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:53 pm

I heat the broken springs with my Mapp Gas torch till red hot then hit it with the mig, quench with cutting oil in a old school oil can, seems to be working so far, even though Minks brake line trick seems easier and quicker

Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:36 pm

I'd gladly take that seat on. I've been looking for a flat back middle seat for our early 57 for a while now. Any leads are appreciated :wink: :wink:

I have heard that springs and structure from 60's era Type 1's seat backs are also a good source of the flat spring packs. Just haven't had a chance to check it out myself :D

Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:13 pm

Inspired by this thread and the desire to have a new seat I tackled my flat back repair today. It went well and wasn't too hard.

Here's what I started with:

half a spring and the entire hoop on the end was gone.

I pillaged this early 70's bay window front seat for parts:

Hoop radiuses were the same and lots of other usable stuff. I cut the hoop sections I needed about 3 inches long, then riveted the two together:

Now with my new end hoop piece, I used the metal crimps available from the bay seat to crimp the new end in place. I used many other crimps to attach the springs and repair a few broken ones. I also took one of the springs from the bay seat, cut it down and scabbed it on, again with a few of the crimps, to the original, of which half was left. After taking the bay seat apart you realize that VW didn't weld them together either. Everything was mechanically crimped in place. All in all no welding required, only a $5 bay window seat and an afternoon. Off to the powder coater and then the upholstery shop. Here's what I ended up with:

Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:36 am

I like it and I didn't even let the pictures load all the way.

Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:03 am

Hey, that looks great!

BarryL, I thought I was the only one in the world still using dialup. :D

I still use an antenna for TV, too. :D

Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:17 pm

nice work

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:12 pm

bringing this thread back for a progress report. Today I tackled repairing the seat base frame. Here's what I had to fix:

I had already cut the tab end off of this existing seat which was in good shape. If you remove it surgically it has a tube attached to it that is the ID of the seat frame tubing, so you just hammer it into you're new tubing and tack it in a few places. I cut some more tubing from the afore mentioned bay window seat frame and fabricated new corners. Make them long so you can cut them in to fit. Here's what I ended up with:

I then cut out the offending section back to good (ok, "decent") metal. I used a piece of MDF as a jig to clamp into the frame to keep everything lined up. Only cut and repair one corner at a time so that everything goes back together in the same orientation:

Now, my epiphany for the day. While walking by the garbage can a couple days ago I saw the broken tie rod I had removed a while back. Hmmm. That tube looks like the right OD for the seat frame ID. Is it? No. But it's close. I took 4 one inch sections and turned them down a little to fit in the seat frame tubing. This allowed for lots of flexibility when cutting in the new pieces. I plug welded these in through some holes I drilled in the seat frame tubing.

finally I fit the new sections in, and making sure everything was straight I welded in the new parts and ground them down flush. So, a few hours work but I didn't need to buy a new seat! Here's the finished product:

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:25 pm

Rick wrote: bringing this thread back for a progress report. Today I tackled repairing the seat base frame. Here's what I had to fix:

I had already cut the tab end off of this existing seat which was in good shape. If you remove it surgically it has a tube attached to it that is the ID of the seat frame tubing, so you just hammer it into you're new tubing and tack it in a few places. I cut some more tubing from the afore mentioned bay window seat frame and fabricated new corners. Make them long so you can cut them in to fit. Here's what I ended up with:

I then cut out the offending section back to good (ok, "decent") metal. I used a piece of MDF as a jig to clamp into the frame to keep everything lined up. Only cut and repair one corner at a time so that everything goes back together in the same orientation:

Now, my epiphany for the day. While walking by the garbage can a couple days ago I saw the broken tie rod I had removed a while back. Hmmm. That tube looks like the right OD for the seat frame ID. Is it? No. But it's close. I took 4 one inch sections and turned them down a little to fit in the seat frame tubing. This allowed for lots of flexibility when cutting in the new pieces. I plug welded these in through some holes I drilled in the seat frame tubing.

finally I fit the new sections in, and making sure everything was straight I welded in the new parts and ground them down flush. So, a few hours work but I didn't need to buy a new seat! Here's the finished product:

Way to go....Looks great... :)
Do you have any others scoots inhabiting your garage :?:

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:59 pm

sparkleplenty wrote:
Do you have any others scoots inhabiting your garage :?:

Just that one. It actually hasn't seen the road in years and may have to go to make room :cry:
When I put up that picture I actually thought it wouldn't be long before somebody here picked out the vespa. It's like Where's Waldo around here! :D

Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:09 am

Rick wrote: sparkleplenty wrote:
Do you have any others scoots inhabiting your garage :?:

Just that one. It actually hasn't seen the road in years and may have to go to make room :cry:
When I put up that picture I actually thought it wouldn't be long before somebody here picked out the vespa. It's like Where's Waldo around here! :D

Indeed it is (Where's Waldo)...Don't get rid of it. You could always park it in the house. What year is it? I restored a 59' Lambretta a couple of years ago. Of course, like all projects, I spent double what I thought I would on the restore. My new formula for restores is: come up with a figure, double that figure, add another $2,330 then after you think you are done, add another $455. It's usually pretty accurate. #-o

Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:05 pm

I know this thread is ages old, but ...
Here is a great, cheap source of flat zigzag springs and coil springs.

http://www.diyupholsterysupply.com/upholstery-spring.html

I have an issue with my 1971 bus front seats where the zigzag spring that is essentially the 45degree bent ones on the front edge are all broken. I've been trying to crimp them back together with cable crimps, however, they just work themselves back loose.

I might try buying these flat zizags from the link above and somehow overlay them. The problem is, how to bend the zigzags to the 45 degree angle.

Any good ideas?

Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:40 pm

Don't have any photos yet because I haven't picked it up but, I just got my middle seat sandblasted and epoxy primered in black. Then, I'm taking it to a guy who will weld in new steel tube to replace some of the rusted out sections.
The springs are all good except for the 2/3 seat back section; it was trashed.
Not sure if I will try and replace that section with a modified Bay Window bit or just have the upholsterer do a conventional foam on back board for that section only - it comes down to practicality & cost.

Here's a photo showing the seat before sandblasting. You can see the base springs are in good condition, the flip seat springs (behind the trashed OG upholstery) are good but the seat back springs on the 2/3 section are gone. What you can't see is the backs of the seat back tubing which is half rusted out.....