TheSamba.com :: View topic - Who has Stainless Steel Coolant pipes in their van?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:44 am

PDXWesty wrote: Rocky Mountain Westy wrote:

Yes we can make them to fit. We will be making the new pipes to totally elimante those hoses. The stainless pipes will go right to the radiator and just have short standard hose couplers. This is a late spring project. Let me know if you need a custom set sonner.

Mike

I would think you need some longer hose couplings or a couple short ones in the system so that it won't be so rigid. I would hate for a small impact to bend a coolant pipe and ruin a large piece of the system. I'd rather have it in smaller easily replacible pieces.

Excellant Point. We will take that into consideration in the design. We love getting feedback and ideas from our customers. A lot of or products are born in our customers minds.

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:36 pm

I hate the way you all try to prove one another wrong. Maybe y'all should work toward a common goal:

Keeping your van on the road, reliably.

'Nuff said.

Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:49 pm

I've seen the Rocky Mountain Westy Plant as of last September and it was pretty darn impressive then. If the Labate brothers say they can do something, I am very, very willing to believe that they can do it, and do it well.

While we're on the subject of bent steel pipes, advanced cooling systems (and talk to Chris/tencentlife about his high-flow exhaust system for the 1.9, please!)... May I throw out an idea for everyone's consideration:

Steel Fuel Lines

Particularly the ones in the engine compartment itself. My 1970 Dodge Dart has steel fuel lines. I have a feeling they wouldn't be that hard to adapt to a design that desperately, desperately, needs them.

:shock:

Best!

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:30 am

r39o wrote: http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html

http://www.jcwhitney.com/RADIATOR_CORROSION_INHIBI...000879;0;0

So what about these to save us from the awfulness of galvanic corrosion?

(They work in my old Mercedes with steel blocks, aluminum heads, steel and stainless steel pipes. Well, at least they seem to work.)

(They are also in your home water heater. The longer the rod, the longer the life of the heater. And they charge you a lot more for a longer zinc rod. You can order rods, at least for the Sears water heaters. Wonder why mine is still good from 1985???)

So what about them?????
So since nobody seems to want to actually discuss this, I looked. Guess what? As you might suspect, there are already a few things in the cooling system that would cause corrosion. I suppose we could have guessed that already. The stainless pipes will just make it worse. The cure is the Zinc anode. (better would be Magnesium...) No big deal. See the chart:

Magnesium and Magnesium Alloys -1,60 to -1,63
Zinc -0,98 to -1,03
Aluminum Alloys -0,76 to -1,00
Mild Steel-0,60 to -0,71
Wrought Iron -0,60 to -0,71
Cast Iron -0,60 to -0,71
Type 410 (13% Chromium) Stainless Steel -0,46 to -0,58
Type 304 ( 18-8 ) Stainless Steel -0.46 to -0,58
Type 316 ( 18-8, 3% Mo Stainless Steel -0,43 to -0,54

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:16 pm

r39o wrote: So since nobody seems to want to actually discuss this, I looked. Guess what? As you might suspect, there are already a few things in the cooling system that would cause corrosion.

Walt, thanks for taking the time to look this up. It's all pretty solid science and it's pretty easy to find the answers. I was just tired of it and wasn't checking these two main threads anymore...until now or course.

Yes, there ARE other metals in the cooling system that can contribute to the corrosion issue, but you have to think in terms of exposure. A brass fitting here and there is not going to cause many issues, but when you consider the combined surface area of two stainless steel cooling tubes running front to rear, the exposure is so much greater, which leads to a greater liklihood of having corrosion issues. Yes, including a sacraficial anode like zink would help, but my question is why not start with a better material choice to begin with? I guess some people are just too attached to their notion that stainless is the cure-all for all things corrsion related when in reality, that is not necessarily true.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:55 pm

Thanks to everyone that posted that have SS pipes installed.

Just ordered a set from GW and should have them in a week or so.

I think that there was some great debate over their use in our vans.

I think that the harsh environment that I currently live in they make perfect sense. Extreme temps in the winter, and salt on the roads months after all the snow has melted. I do think that after all the debate a Zinc anode maybe a purchase of mine before I do the install of the pipes.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:00 pm

So where can one buy the zinc anodes?

Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:09 pm

iceracer wrote: So where can one buy the zinc anodes?

and how/where do you install it?

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:31 pm

madspaniard wrote: iceracer wrote: So where can one buy the zinc anodes?

and how/where do you install it?

I think you would want to get one that screws into the engine drain hole. Probably need a piece of zinc rod of a certain diameter and then thread it.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:44 am

madspaniard wrote: iceracer wrote: So where can one buy the zinc anodes?

and how/where do you install it?

So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:02 am

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: madspaniard wrote: iceracer wrote: So where can one buy the zinc anodes?

and how/where do you install it?

So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts?

I really like the sound of a bung on both pipes.
Simplly for the ease of flushing.
I flush every two years on multiple vans.
Being able to have two points would be great.
I would open one and hook up air pressue at 15lbs. to the other.
This way all coolant can be removed and quickly.

If both were zinc coated...2 is better than one.

dylan

Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:09 am

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: PDXWesty wrote: Rocky Mountain Westy wrote:

Yes we can make them to fit. We will be making the new pipes to totally elimante those hoses. The stainless pipes will go right to the radiator and just have short standard hose couplers. This is a late spring project. Let me know if you need a custom set sonner.

Mike

I would think you need some longer hose couplings or a couple short ones in the system so that it won't be so rigid. I would hate for a small impact to bend a coolant pipe and ruin a large piece of the system. I'd rather have it in smaller easily replacible pieces.

Excellant Point. We will take that into consideration in the design. We love getting feedback and ideas from our customers. A lot of or products are born in our customers minds.

I feel a combination of hard lines in the center section of the van and flexible silicone hoses at the front and back would be ideal.
In the front you have to deal with mounting a spare and in the rear, all of the different conversions could have specific hoses.

I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:15 am

Quote: I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible.

What size? 12AN or 16AN?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:59 am

If the threaded bung option is being considered check out the pencil zincs used in marine gearbox oil coolers. The thread into the inside of a 1/4" NPT plug. http://www.harboranodes.com/pencil_zincs.html

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:13 am

RMW I really appreciate your attitude in this thread. It is welcome to see a vendor of coolant pipes that when confronted with a potential issue begins looking to solutions that would be easy for the customer to maintain. If I am ever in the market for stainless coolant pipes I am sure I will give you my business.

What surface area of sacrificial anode(s) would be needed to compensate for the surface area of the coolant pipes/aluminum engine parts?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:25 am

[quote="Rocky Mountain Westy"[/quote][quote="So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts?"[/quote]

I'm following this thread quietly but with great interest. My first thought for the guys at RMW = "Live long and prosper"

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:40 am

I am not saying adding a sacrificial anode will not make any difference, I will just say I just don't know. To a large extent it is the relative area of the anode to the protected metal that makes the difference. The anode area is going to be pretty small while the area of the aluminium block is going to be pretty large. Really don't know what area counts. Is it the total aluminium area or just whatever small areas where the protective oxide is damaged by erosion, such as around the water pump impeller or where the head "waterbox" gasket moves a bit?

To be of any good the anode would also need to be electrically connected to the block. If you install the anode in the coolant lines and then install a jumper from the coolant lines to the block you would likely be worse off than having no anode and having electrically isolated cooling lines.

Just thoughts!!!

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:53 am

rsxsr wrote: Quote: I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible.

What size? 12AN or 16AN?

Depends upon the application.
the equation for the sizing is: xxAN/16AN = ID of hose in inches.

12AN/16AN = 3/4"
16AN/16AN = 1"

and so on.

I have had the luxury of reusing many of my lines from race cars I have owned or maintained. Many of the Porsches run front to back lines.
We swap in new lines with engines or hours on the engines on a regular basis.
Some of the lines I have used are from eBay as well.
Baja trucks and sandrails use them to plumb the radiator in a rear position. Most of these lines will work. IIRC, 11ft. is a good length to start experimenting with.
If using lines for oil or trans fluid, I highly recommend a Oberg scavanger on the line. It works like a filter and will grab metal particles. They are not the easiest to clean without fully disassembling, so take that into consideration when placing it inline.

dylan

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:56 am

I am confused then. You do have AN lines running front to rear for your radiator? If so were they AN16? thank you

Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:37 am

I am running a larger diameter that is special order for Porsches.
16AN is smaller than the stock plastic lines.