TheSamba.com :: View topic - Is converting your bus's engine to a subaru engine worth it?

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:47 am

I haven't gotten a VW bus......yet, but lately I've been looking around this site and others. I've read wonderful things about the vans, and also heard some common complaints. One that stood out to me was the mediocre gas mileage. If I get a van, it would most likely not be a daily driver, but i would want to plan a few cross country road trips. I was reading about rebuilding engines. My main concern is the gas mileage, I'm not concerned about the vehicles value declining because of an unorginal engine. Has anyone done the subaru conversion and found that it greatly increased your gas mileage? Was it really expensive? Any other ways you have rebuilt the engine that have affected your gas mileage? I would like to get at least 25 mpg, but from other forum posts I understand that this is pushing it, and fantastic mileage for one of these buses. I would like to get a 1972-1979 bus, but definitely not in the 80's.
Thanks for all your help :)

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:57 am

If mileage is a concern then go diesel. You'll get that low end power our Buses like and good mileage ;)

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:59 am

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42 seen this?

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:59 am

Bay window buses are not really great candidates for Subaru conversions because of the need to mount a radiator somewhere. It's a difficult conversion and if you've never even owned a bus I think you'd be way over your head. Most people who convert to other engines do so for performance or reliability reasons. Or just because they're bored and want something to do. I doubt you will see enough of an improvement in gas mileage to justify the cost. VW engines are pretty efficient already and the mileage a VW Bus gets is comparable with the mileage you get from a modern minivan.

You can get 25 mpg from a well-tuned stock bus if you keep it light and drive it very conservatively... 55 mph.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:11 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search_keywords=subaru&search_forum=5

The general consensus is that it's expensive and complicated. And not really worth the trouble. If you want new car reliability and mileage, go buy a new car. If you want to experience driving a vintage VW, buy one and learn to appreciate it for what it is and learn how to correctly maintain a vintage car.

I get between 20 and 25 mpg in my 78 2.0 EFI Westy.

Learn to use the Samba search feature. The link above comes from the hits from "subaru".

This one is from using subaru AND conversion. To search for multiple words, capitalize "AND" in between your search words

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search_keywords=subaru+AND+conversion&search_forum=5

Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:13 am

WhirledTraveller wrote: You can get 25 mpg from a well-tuned stock bus if you keep it light and drive it very conservatively... 55 mph.
So true...just get your bus as close to stock as you can. German engineers designed it right the first time..no need to hack it up to put a bigger engine and a radiator.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:19 am

Whirled gives great advice. We put a Toyota 3TC 1.8 in a '76 Riveria. I would have preferred the Sube flat 4 1.8 ( I used to be a member of USMB). Lots of work, proper cooling, rewiring, flywheel change kits, etc, not to mention fabricating new engine hangers....Not worth it unless you're into a great learning experience. Stick with a well running stock Bus.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:25 am

a heater and defroster that works is tempting. If I want them bad enough I'll get a vanagon.

look at Jeeps, Harleys, Globe Swifts ( airplane that looks like a hot rod and flies like a bread truck in stock form ). Almost impossible to find a stock one after the warranty expires. the few unhacked originals are in museums

some people get to a place where they decide they are not the owner of a commodity; they are the custodian of an increasingly rare item. keeping it intact for the next generation.

I'm at that place with VW vans, says the guy with a baja bug....

Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:43 am

You're not going to pay a lot for a Bus nor will you be driving it every day. So even if the mileage is 20 and you get 28 with a Subbie engine do you not think all the money you "save" in gas you would not spend 10x more doing the engine conversion?

Doesn't make any cents.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:41 pm

^-- agreed 100%. How much is one of these conversions going to cost? $2K? $5K?

You would be saving $.04 a mile (20 vs 28mpg @$3 gal).

So if the conversion costs $2K, it would take you 50,000 Mi to break even cost wise.

If it costs, $5K it would take you 125,000 MI :shock:

Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:48 pm

I tend to be in the "busdaddy's signature" school of thought:

"Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style."

[emphasis added by me]

I am not a true purist but I generally don't like the idea of swapping out original design for something else. Could be laziness, could be the comfort of knowing how to work with stock components. Either way, it's just my opinion.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:54 pm

Caleb Melvin wrote: ^-- agreed 100%. How much is one of these conversions going to cost? $2K? $5K?

You would be saving $.04 a mile (20 vs 28mpg @$3 gal).

So if the conversion costs $2K, it would take you 50,000 Mi to break even cost wise.

If it costs, $5K it would take you 125,000 MI :shock:

Economists... :roll:

Just kidding. :P

Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:07 pm

Corvair or Porsche would be fine by me but generally I agree.

Justin wrote: I tend to be in the "busdaddy's signature" school of thought:

"Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style."

[emphasis added by me]

I am not a true purist but I generally don't like the idea of swapping out original design for something else. Could be laziness, could be the comfort of knowing how to work with stock components. Either way, it's just my opinion.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:11 pm

TheShane wrote: Caleb Melvin wrote: ^-- agreed 100%. How much is one of these conversions going to cost? $2K? $5K?

You would be saving $.04 a mile (20 vs 28mpg @$3 gal).

So if the conversion costs $2K, it would take you 50,000 Mi to break even cost wise.

If it costs, $5K it would take you 125,000 MI :shock:

Economists... :roll:

Just kidding. :P

I hated economics, too many shaded triangles trying to show oversimplified concepts. :x

I do like to know what things are going to cost me though. This one does not make sense to me. Its like those people who trade in their civic for a prius. You spent $10K more for a car that only gets 10mpg more? Really?

If you think about it here, a bus driver only drives max 10K a year, that would take him 5-12 years to just break even!

Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:33 pm

I sell cars for a living and there are a lot of math morons out there. Usually it is passion or want is the motivating force but logic (better gas mileage, etc...) is the excuse given. They are lies people tell themselves because they want to believe it.

I dropped $4,500 into a new motor, etc. for my Bus and have been dumping money into it for 15 years but I don't plan on getting rid of it and am emotionally attached to my car so that's my 'excuse.'

Caleb Melvin wrote: TheShane wrote: Caleb Melvin wrote: ^-- agreed 100%. How much is one of these conversions going to cost? $2K? $5K?

You would be saving $.04 a mile (20 vs 28mpg @$3 gal).

So if the conversion costs $2K, it would take you 50,000 Mi to break even cost wise.

If it costs, $5K it would take you 125,000 MI :shock:

Economists... :roll:

Just kidding. :P

I hated economics, too many shaded triangles trying to show oversimplified concepts. :x

I do like to know what things are going to cost me though. This one does not make sense to me. Its like those people who trade in their civic for a prius. You spent $10K more for a car that only gets 10mpg more? Really?

If you think about it here, a bus driver only drives max 10K a year, that would take him 5-12 years to just break even!

Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:21 pm

To answer the op's question- hell now it ain't worth it. Survey the options out there and the math just won't add up. Think about being in the middle of nowhere looking for parts. Subaru crap is going to be just as hard to find as the stock vw parts. Power from the subaru is going to be in the 90-150hp range and the fuel miliage will be 20-25. The hp increase will be nice but the availability of parts would be a little rough. I have yet to see a well sorted out subaru conversion done to a bay. The route I'm taking made the most sense to me. I have a rebuilt 2.3l that will make 120+hp. All told this cost nearly 2000.00. That price includes the 6 rib trans I needed to make it happen.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:29 pm

Hmmm, so it seems that it wouldn't be worth it. Ok, well i thank everyone for giving me their advice and experience on the matter. I would like to have better mileage, but i suppose the authenticiy of the hippie van makes up for its sucky mileage. :wink:

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:01 pm

If you do it for performance then it a good idea, A lot of work though.
They do it a lot in Australia cause vanagons were nver imported there so their is a lot of info on this just not here, do a google search on it. After you put a raditor in the bus its really no different from a vanagon and that is still a bunch of work. And you are looking at $10000 to put one in with a good 2.2l.

Oh and if you are bad at or don't like electrical work then do not do it and don't think about.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:48 pm

Well, I put a water cooled (Golf) in my '76 Westy, but from the start I had NO intentions of any type of fuel mileage or horsepower payback,I simply wanted the challenge, and maybe bragging rights. I (now) have a stock looking Bus, with a very reliable engine, which gets about the same mileage as stock.
But, I am very emotionally attached to the Bus, and I had no intentions of EVER breaking even with all the countless hours I have into it.
But I gotta say, it sure is fun!
This type of endeavour is NOT for the faint of heart stock nazi, no way. It is a big challenge, and you had better be good at mechanical work and more importantly electrical work, as YOU are the one who will have to troubleshoot and fix it. Its all a new challenge then, but you have to be very patient and open minded when the damn thing does not work out like you wanted. There is a large learning curve AFTER the Bus is running, as cooling issues and others pop up.
BUT, YMMV. I like thinking outside the Bus. :wink:

Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:18 pm

My bus has a 1.8 engine w/ dual Solexes and the 009 w/ no advance - as old-school as it gets. No, it is not a "daily driver" but it doesn't get much down-time either. It's fun to drive! I built my engine from three incomplete motors that came with the bus. All I bought new were jugs, pistons, rings, and a few seals. I kept it low-budget and figured that If I can get a year out of it, I'll be doing good, then I'll put the money into rebuilding it the right way or look into a conversion kit (and yes, I grew up with Subarus - LOVE EM!) Well, that was three years and many miles ago.

We have family in PA and have taken the bus on many round trips up & back. In fact, just got back from another one where I spent two nights in the bus. Good times! This bus has never left us sitting, although there were a few late starts, due to adjustments or quick fixes that needed to be made. Just the naure of the beast.

My point is this: With every mile logged, I realize just how fun and reliable this noisy old air-cooled machine can be. My thoughts of converting to a modern engine have faded -- why should I , when this one is doing so good? It keeps up with traffic, and yes, the heat works! My mileage on a trip has never averaged below 21 mpg. That's about the same as our new minivan, except that it wasn't lugging around a full kitchen, water tanks, and all the other stuff we keep in the bus.

No, it's not for everyone, and if it's not your flavor, that's fine.
But it is mine!!!

-Klauss