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Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:36 am

Hey everyone here's the problem... I went and bought a timing light so I could set the timing and it just simply wont work... Tried it on other cars and works fine just not on mine... I hooked it up on the battery and spark plug wire #1 and still nothing. I tried it on the positive side of the coil and ground it to the nut on the carb and when I hit the button it kills power to the car completely. I checked the distributor, cap, rotor, points, coil, etc and everything seems to be fine... I checked to make sure spark was coming out of the distributor and while running I pulled each plug wire one at a time to see if it would spark. When I pull #3 and #4 it wants to die (typical for trying to run on 3 cylinders)... However when I pull #1 and #2, it barely affects it... Can anyone help?!

Specs are:

71 SB
Rebuilt 1600dp
34 PICT 3
009 mechanical advance distributor...

Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:16 pm

Try the timing light on the wires for #3 to get it to light up. If you pull the wire and it doesn't affect the running, I'd figure there's an issue with the #1 timing. Check the contacts on the inside of the cap. A new one is cheap, but for troubleshooting, try cleaning the contact for #1. Stick a known good plug on the end of the #1 wire and ground it, looking for spark. Do this before and after cleaning to see if you accomplished anything. The spark plug itself could be bad, but since the timing light isn't working, I wouldn't think so.

I figure it's either the contacts in the cap or a plug wire. Rule them out first and report back for more hints.

Good luck!

Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:03 pm

I tried it on all wires including the coil wire and I couldn't get it to work. Plugs are new and I did check the inside of the cap and there are some light marks as if spark was traveling down the cap. I'll replace those and try again.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:54 pm

try flipping the plug wire clamp over. Most are polarity sensitive to the magnetic field around the plug wires, and have an arrow that points to the plug. If your coil is wired backwards you will not notice any running problems but the field around the plug wires will be backwards.

Also hook up near the plug, away from the dist.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:35 pm

I tried that. Tried just about every way you could think of hooking the plug wire on it. Close, far, regular, reversed, and I even tried holding the clamp in different positions to see if that helped at all.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:07 pm

I had a similar problem with my timing light. Using the + terminal of the coil is NOT the ideal connection. While it SHOULD work, you could be "stealing" too much current from the coil.

Using your jumper cables as an extension, connect the timing light directly to your battery and see how that works for you.

If you have an alternator, you can connect to the large terminal on the top which runs to the battery.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:15 pm

Using jumper cables and the battery was my first attempt. I even checked to make sure the cables were good so I know it's got to be something else. The car drives fine except for an exhaust leak and slight hesitation from the 009... I have it statically timed to the best of my ability but I'm just really OCD about it and want it perfect. I'll keep tinkering with it tomorrow and see what I come up with. I'm thinking the distributor cap or plug wires are the culprit. Bleh I hate trouble shooting!

Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:49 am

Does your inductive pickup have an arrow on it showing the current flow direction?
Some timing lights have this and the pickup should only be clamped on so the arrow points towards the spark plug end of the spark plug wire.

As far as #1 and #2 not making a difference when you pull the plug wires... have you adjusted valves?

Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:13 am

TYPES OF SPARK PLUG WIRES

Spark plug wires come in three basic types:

Distributed Resistance wire. This type has a fiber glass core impregnated with latex graphite. This type of wire provides the maximum amount of radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression. RFI occurs when high voltage passes through the plug wires. Creating a controlled amount of resistance in the wire (3,000 to 12,000 ohms per foot) suppresses RFI and prevents sensitive onboard electronics from picking up false signals that could cause driveability problems.

One of the drawbacks of carbon core suppression wires is that internal resistance creates internal heat. Over time, this ages the carbon core causing resistance to increase. And as resistance goes up, so does the chance for ignition misfire.

Prior to 1980, 95% of all vehicles were equipped with carbon core suppression wires. But concerns over emissions and long term reliability led many of the Japanese OEMs to switch to "mag" style spark plug wires.

Inductance (mag) wire This type has a spiral wound core of copper/nickel alloy wire. RFI is suppressed primarily by the magnetic field formed by the loops of wire wrapped around the core rather than the resistance of the wire itself. Mag wire has less total resistance (only about 500 ohms/foot) than suppression wire, so it reduces the current needed to fire the plugs. The main advantage is improved durability over the long run.

Mag style spark plug wires have been used on Honda and Acura engines since 1971, most Nissan and Infinity applications since 1980, and many Toyota and Lexus applications since 1984.

Fixed Resistor wire This type of wire has a steel or copper metallic core with a fixed resistor in the plug boot to control RFI. This wire is used on many European imports, and all aircooled VWs.

One possibility is some of the cheaper VW plug wires on the market are solid core wires {not carbon core} but without the resistors that were built into the plug end connector that VW had.

This would result in less resistance and less magnetic field around the wires. Making it harder for the timing light to detect the signal.

What is the resistance of your plug wires? Try substituting a higher resistance carbon wire {noise suppression} for #1 plug.

As for 1 & 2 not making a difference when removed. Start by rechecking the firing order 1432 CLOCKWISE

Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:07 am

I had the same problem. I suggest you get a timing light that plugs between the distributor cap and the spark plug wire...not the clip on inductor types. Then you will see the light.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:49 am

Thanks guys! Yes my valves are adjusted properly and no the clamp does not have an arrow pointing to the plug. I've tried clipping it on both ways and no luck.

Dan - As far as checking the firing order what do you mean? Make sure the wires are ran right?

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:55 am

Well you can always scrub the light all together and try the grounded light bulb trick.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:00 am

Put the engine to TDC almost ready for #1 cylinder to fire. Once you are there the firing order on top of the distributor cap goes 1-4-3-2 clockwise around the cap.

Keep in mind tht the crankshaft goes around twice for every time the distributor goes around one.

On my 71, the pulley notch was at 5º ATDC foir use with the DVDA distributor than came with the car new. If you do not have a degree pulley on this thing, confirm what your notches are all about.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672

Also engine numbering order is

FRONT

3 1
4 2
REAR

If you cannot get it to start, static time the distributor to TDC. It will start, but won't run well. Then time it correctly as they say to here....

http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/bosch009.htm

I would invest in a better distributor myself with some better wires and a new cap.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:42 am

If you read what I posted, the car runs fine being static timed and I know how the firing order goes and which cylinder is what. I have a degreed crank pulley but it does me no good if I can't get the timing light to work...

Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:09 pm

If your light works on your other cars, and won't work on known firing spark plug wires, the problem is with the type of wire. Your choice is to replace them, or use a different light.

You can get a light that plugs in between the wire and plug (better) or cap and wire (as noted above somewhere); but just buy the correct wires. Keep this set as a spare.

I think I recall you stating you had a 009. If so, you can do the bulb wired to the coil to statically time it at rest, but then again, if you're using a 009, you need to be timing the max advance, not idle. (30 deg at approx 3500 rpms (or whatever rpms the distributor stops advancing). You also mentioned a flat spot. I don't recall the carb you're running, but if you have the 34/3 009 combo, you won't get rid of the flat spot without mods to the jets. It's just how it is.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:23 pm

My first post stated I have the 009 and 34/3 combo and I know that is what's causing the flat spot that's why I'm not worried about it. I know how to do the advance timing but I need the light to work in order to do it. (Hence this thread)

Thanks for the tips everyone

Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:54 pm

Macaroni wrote: My first post stated I have the 009 and 34/3 combo and I know that is what's causing the flat spot that's why I'm not worried about it. I know how to do the advance timing but I need the light to work in order to do it. (Hence this thread)

Thanks for the tips everyone

Darn I wish people would see my posts more about eliminating the flat spot using an 009. Look down the top of your carb, push the throttle lever down slowly and gas should exit the fuel discharge port almost immediately upon throttle engagement. If you have a delay, move your accelerator pump adjustment one knotch negative and check again. Make sure you don't have a drip if everything is working right so you don't static flood your carb. You'll never see a flat spot again (hopefully).

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:37 pm

RobbyK wrote: Macaroni wrote: My first post stated I have the 009 and 34/3 combo and I know that is what's causing the flat spot that's why I'm not worried about it. I know how to do the advance timing but I need the light to work in order to do it. (Hence this thread)

Thanks for the tips everyone

Darn I wish people would see my posts more about eliminating the flat spot using an 009. Look down the top of your carb, push the throttle lever down slowly and gas should exit the fuel discharge port almost immediately upon throttle engagement. If you have a delay, move your accelerator pump adjustment one knotch negative and check again. Make sure you don't have a drip if everything is working right so you don't static flood your carb. You'll never see a flat spot again (hopefully).

Thanks for the advice! I got my bus running tonight for the first time in 10 years. I have a brand new 34/3 on it and a real good 009... I'm looking forward to trying out your suggestion!

Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:05 am

Macaroni, verify that each plug is sparking with a good blue spark. You will have to pull the plugs to do this. Once you are sure of this you can check out why the car almost stalls with the #3 or #4 plug wire disconnected but not with the #1 or #2 pulled. Can you get the timming light to work on any of the plug wires? If not then change the wires to a stock wire and try again. You could use a wire from another car that the light works on as a temporary measure to get your timming set-up.