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Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:31 pm

The WBX in my truck was quickly dying and it was time to make the decision. A tencent motor for me is about 4K plus shipping and the GoWesty Hi-Po motors are more so I went the conversion route. The conversion cost me less money and I got more power. I am more than happy with the extra power and am glad that I changed everything over. My other syncro is converted also but the 2wd is still a WBX. I have a hard time driving the 2wd any longer even though it is a very strong stock motor, it just isn't the same
There are vendors and suppliers making replacement parts for the stock motors but who wants to buy a $400 computer and a $300 AFM and a $380 signal filter for "vanagon syndrome" and then there is another problem with a part that is NLA?
It is hard to stay on board a motor platform That had problems straight from the dealership floor. I watched a beautiful tornado red Vanagon go out on a test drive in '90 and later saw it come back on a flatbed leaking coolant everywhere. :shock:
If your motor is running strong then don't do anything except maintain it well, but if it is failing it might be time to jump ship.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:59 pm

I paid peanuts for a 14K mile EJ22. what would a 14K mile waterboxer cost nowadays?...could you even find one?

for me the full subaru conversion is less money than a rebuilt wbx 2.1 and with none of the wbx problems.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:21 pm

I love my Westy. My wife, daughter, dogs and I have lived in it for 1/4 to 1/3 of every year we've owned it. I want it to be ready and able for trips all the time.

I loved my 1.9. Until it died. I thought it had enough power in many situations. I drove it over many high passes and through some really difficult conditions.

Now I love the Zetec. It's got more power, is very easy to maintain, and I know every brand new inch of it.

I could have got a good VW engine from tencent and it would have been bulletproof for a long time (minus all the other old systems on my van involved) and a little less expensive. There is no doubt that he is an excellent builder and, after a visit with him, I would recommend him to anyone thinking of swapping in another VW engine or just about any project you can imagine. He, quite simply, is a genius.

However, every part I need is now available everywhere and, after a couple thousand miles, my stress level is much lower. The small increase in power is nice, the large increase in peace of mind is the dealmaker for me.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:02 pm

Let me educate you :-)

My own van is now for sale (i will explain why another day).... yep, it's even here on the Samba, from here all I i had are only stupid e-mail and offer, so stupid i can't believe how stupid people can be. I won't even show them to you guys. Poor stupid VW owner, so many Subi bashing, well, let's say it, purist.

Many think i'm sold to Subi... he he he, so wrong. I would adhere/join anything that could push reliably our lovely van But Subi as been a conversion for decade, simple, it's a flat four AND THE CRANKSHAFT TURN THE RIGHT WAY. Subi have been in Bus's (Bays) way before i even own a westy.

So why???????????????????? Well, some got sick of the mechanical side of the van but love the van concept. So they found a solution. At first it was simply horrible but still!!! it did work and did the job.

Today, it's a different story, it's so good that it's better than the original design.

Saving the VW boxer is still possible but it's getting harder and harder (parts, good machinist...)

The VW boxer was a good engine, the Digifan/Digijet where...ok, no more, the cooling system was complicated for nothing.

I work on those van 6/7, i was in need of option, simple as that.

Now let me tell you a VERY SHORT story, i have built that for my van originally:

That thing let me down 3 time in 2 weeks, it cost (COST price) over 4500$, brand new FI parts that let me down.

(4 letters word here) that, i needed something more modern and reliable, more power was a BIG bonus.

So I got that:

Now ask me if i want to go back!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Why the heck would i want to got in hell??????????

Now have built 37 (10 to come) of those, all SUPER happy customers and friend.

Life is not always about money, it's about being frigging happy and not stressed out like hell.

Now come here and test drive my van, you will go back home and cry. Don't be jealous, it's a fact. Those of you who THINK that you know everything about conversion, stock engine without even knowing about it for real STOP, you don't know!!!!! I do, each single frigging day, it's all I do in life, I swap engine wile you eat dinner.

BRAVO to 1.8T, TDI, Bostig, Audi inline 5, Subi or whatever will make you like less miserable. If it was not, well be ready because you where just plain lucky, your next.

I was just plain stupid and ignorant wile doing stock engine (and i'm still doing some???). I have seen the light.

Benny

Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:21 pm

No offence to anyone with a Suby or considering using one! Apparently they are good engines "today."

But, I do remember, when Subys come on the market back in the 70s and 80s they had HEAD issues too! Replacing head gaskets was a routine thing for those early models!

VW got out of the pancake engine design when they went to the Euro Van (at least in the USA).

Anyway, from what I have read, the Suby engine has proven itself!

As I stated in the earlier post in this Thread, I'm going with the TDI engine. It will be fuel effecient and have all the power I want! Also, it keeps my Vanagon "all VW."

Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:41 pm

AndyBees wrote: Also, it keeps my Vanagon "all VW."

Why??? I don't get this one and I never will. I'm curious, please explain, please!

As to head gasket problem, well, sorry to say but it's a 4 cyl problem, i will elaborate on that one day.

Me, i'm proud of not being all VW, so very proud, VW is not a good engine maker.... if you think that, you (not necessarily you!) know nothing about engine.

I just change a clutch on a TDI Jetta (for a friend) last week, stupid design, so dirty, VW should be ashame. There are the worse oil leaker in the world. They simply don't know how to built proper gasket. Torque sequence and amount (ft/pounds) is wrong by the book. I had to use Locktite 518 everywhere, al OEM gasket. I should explain that we ended up doing way more than the clutch.

Now go see a 1990 Honda Civic 1.5L, you can still eat on those engine, they are so clean.

How the heck VW has so much fan, i don't get this one either.

The Japanese folks copied everything, that is true, but they made it SO MUCH better.

Ben

Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:09 pm

ftp2leta wrote: AndyBees wrote: Also, it keeps my Vanagon "all VW."

Why??? I don't get this one and I never will. I'm curious, please explain, please!

As to head gasket problem, well, sorry to say but it's a 4 cyl problem, i will elaborate on that one day.

Me, i'm proud of not being all VW, so very proud, VW is not a good engine maker.... if you think that, you (not necessarily you!) know nothing about engine.

I just change a clutch on a TDI Jetta (for a friend) last week, stupid design, so dirty, VW should be ashame. There are the worse oil leaker in the world. They simply don't know how to built proper gasket. Torque sequence and amount (ft/pounds) is wrong by the book. I had to use Locktite 518 everywhere, al OEM gasket. I should explain that we ended up doing way more than the clutch.

Now go see a 1990 Honda Civic 1.5L, you can still eat on those engine, they are so clean.

How the heck VW has so much fan, i don't get this one either.

The Japanese folks copied everything, that is true, but they made it SO MUCH better.

Ben

Ben, sounds like you know your $hit. So, I'll not argue with you!

But, I will say this, as my sig shows, I've been driving VWs for many moons and have no use for Jap products!

As to "all" VW, well, I have the knowledge, experience, tools, manuals, etc., for my VWs! If I am out on a road trip and have engine issues with my VW powered VW, where do I go with my TDI/Vanagon? The TDI club has a whole host of Gurus all over North America listed in the club!

My 2000 Jetta TDI has been an awesome vehicle and still performs exceptionally well at 268k miles!........ over 50 MPG life time average... with the original Clutch!

This is just an opinion Thread! I've never considered it a stigma to be driving the WBX!

Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:48 pm

Before I got my '85 weekender I was all hot and bothered to do an SVX because of all the negative press here and else where. However, when I found the '85, I drove it home 120 miles over a couple of good hills and it kicked A$$! It would maintain 65-70 with no problems while climbing. I did not care about the engine because I thought I would dump it ASAP. By the time I was home, I was quite happy with it. It may not have the power of a v8, but it is way better than the early bay windows I grew up in and it is just fine with me. I don't drive VW vans because I am in a hurry to get somewhere. When this engine's time comes, I might think about a conversion. But, if tencent is still building them, I will likely stay WBX.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:30 pm

We all like the thomas kinkade version of the little german town, with little german cars putting around. this is the basis for the purist movement. leighterhusen for everyone!
I'll have a bitburger and the sauerbraten!
but, it's all about awareness. we like the cute engineering style of volkswagen. cute! germany has a reputation for innovation and precision
---when there is a budget. porsche, bmw, mercedes, etc.
in our example, the vanagon project started with the best caliber of engineers and designers europe had to offer. look at the cabin design. it was defined early on in 1977. they wanted something more than what they had. that's why it is so much better in so many ways than previous models, or any other models at that time. the vanagon is configured like no other vehicle in existence.
they started there, with a design concept to green light the project for
mass production planning. thats where all the stuff you and I complain about were born.
all the junky parts like clutches and bushings and coolant distributors were
cost decisions. frans meuller wanted to design a whole new overhead cam wasserboxer with multiport injection and software that learns as you drive, but it was rejected due to cost.
they went with the type four aircooled 4 cylinder as long as they could,
avoiding tooling expenses. they tried to get the gti golf 4 cylinder, after the engine room was shaped for a boxer,
but they couldnt build enough of them to support the golf/gti project and the vanagon line.

so, at the last minute, they threw together a redesigned aircooled engine, hastily adapted to watercooling, because they were forced to due to emissions requirements. and it looks like it. wet head studs, a rubber lip
water seal at the head [which has never been used before or since]
and a terribly complicated and vulnerable cooling matrix that would have mulholland crying for a roll of duct tape.
If you enjoy your 2.1, as I did, it is temporary, in a cute german kind of way. the fix is not cute or german. apparently, unless you give them a budget to work with, there is little room for continuous, incremental
improvement in wolfsburg,not unlike at certain japanese manufacturing addresses that want to build a dependable reputation for themselves.

I sold my vws in the late eighties and drove toyotas in the nineties.
I forgot how to turn a wrench for 15 years. I did other things besides car stuff. so now I'm back, re-engineering a volkswagen again.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/642456.jpg

todd

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:00 pm

ftp2leta wrote: AndyBees wrote: Also, it keeps my Vanagon "all VW."

Why??? I don't get this one and I never will. I'm curious, please explain, please!

As to head gasket problem, well, sorry to say but it's a 4 cyl problem, i will elaborate on that one day.

Me, i'm proud of not being all VW, so very proud, VW is not a good engine maker.... if you think that, you (not necessarily you!) know nothing about engine.

I just change a clutch on a TDI Jetta (for a friend) last week, stupid design, so dirty, VW should be ashame. There are the worse oil leaker in the world. They simply don't know how to built proper gasket. Torque sequence and amount (ft/pounds) is wrong by the book. I had to use Locktite 518 everywhere, al OEM gasket. I should explain that we ended up doing way more than the clutch.

Now go see a 1990 Honda Civic 1.5L, you can still eat on those engine, they are so clean.

How the heck VW has so much fan, i don't get this one either.

The Japanese folks copied everything, that is true, but they made it SO MUCH better.

Ben
Opinions are like butt holes(everyone has one). A fellow wrencher and friend once told me "If it has tits or wheels it will give you problems". This has proven quite true in my life experiences. When i got my syncro(my 2nd, the first being a 82 air cooler) i knew i was gona swap the motor for something more powerful. I planned to do it with my air cooled but found the cost of an air cooled porsche motor was a bit too much for me to swallow. I drove the water boxer daily knowing that when i got the dreaded head leak i was gona swap. My old engine spent enough time in Vermont to rust out damb near everything attached to the block. A rebuild I'd be happy with was looking like it'd be over 5k. After yrs of research i happened on Stef's van in a thread. Of all the swaps it offered the power, torque, and dependability i was looking for. No other swap had the #'s i was looking for.
Now Ben our opinions are based on experience. My experience with vw cars has alway been positive for me. I've never broken down, over heated or had any unusuall probs with my cars. I worked on all of them my self. Damb near everyone had an engine swap(mainly for more power). I've had 8 valvers that purred like a cat, weren't leaky, and lasted me well over 300k miles. I've had 16v's with same mileage. One of my old cars is still in service today. I've seen many a honda(80's-90's) that looked like crap when i opened the hood for service. I also seen some horribly looking and running subbys. I am not going to knock any other brands since how a car is mantained has alot to do with how it's percieved by the owner, mechanic, and others.
Why put a suby in my vw when i have plenty of choices whithin the vw audi group that offer everything from great power to superb fuel economy? For me it's a no brainer vw all the way :D .
Ben don't forget most of the people on this forum are vw fans and fenatics. If not samba wouldn't the samba have classifieds and forums for other makes?????? :P

Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:23 am

Love the 2.1

I don't find it that expensive for parts, granted I did my heads and gaskets 5 years ago, then all the parts were on ebay for cheap.

Now all the parts I need, mostly exhaust, coolant hoses, can be had on the samba in the classifieds..

Originally the motor ran on Karma, but now owning it the second time around, it runs on knowledge aquired, somewhat painfully sometimes to keep it going..

Nothing like em though..

Had a transplant bus with a 1.8 Golf motor, wasn't a bus to me.. there just was not that sound.. of the sewing machine in the back.. lots of power depending how you tune it.. or how you want to use gas.. (2 Wheel model)

Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:11 am

Love the 2.1

I don't find it that expensive for parts, granted I did my heads and gaskets 5 years ago, then all the parts were on ebay for cheap.

Now all the parts I need, mostly exhaust, coolant hoses, can be had on the samba in the classifieds..

Originally the motor ran on Karma, but now owning it the second time around, it runs on knowledge aquired, somewhat painfully sometimes to keep it going..

Nothing like em though..

Had a transplant bus with a 1.8 Golf motor, wasn't a bus to me.. there just was not that sound.. of the sewing machine in the back.. lots of power depending how you tune it.. or how you want to use gas.. (2 Wheel model)

Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:42 am

I have enjoyed the 1.9 WBX's in all three of my Vanagons. The first one had leaky heads but still carried me all over the country, dumping coolant out of the overflow tank at campgrounds from east to west. The second one had new seals and did just fine, and is still on the road.

The latest one, I bought knowing that the heads were leaking. I looked into several different options and even drove a Tiico conversion and a 1.8 Jetta conversion. I seriously considered the Tiico, NOT because it was VW, but because it appeared to be reliable and more powerful. I ended up going with Subaru because it's a boxer motor and there was a large support system for doing it myself through Ben and others like him on the SubaruVanagon Yahoo Group.

I went Subaru because I have never intended this Vanagon to be a cute relic from the past to be used only for weekend trips and driving to VW gatherings--this is my daily driver and I use the holy hell out of it. It is a workhorse and needs a workhorse motor. The Subaru motor provides that.

This being my 23rd Volkswagen in 25 years, I can understand the perspective of the purists. Nothing pisses me off more than kids absolutely ruining MK2 GTI's by dropping VR6's in them.

But as far as this particular Vanagon goes, I needed to be pragmatic. The WBX was not suitable for my needs, but the rest of the Vanagon is; therefore, a superior powerplant was necessary. For that reason, I will probably go with a Zetec for my next Vanagon when the time comes, due to all of the reasons that Bostig tells us: reliability, availability of parts, ease of installation.

I guess my main problem is that I haven't yet realized that this is a "classic" or "retro" vehicle, as some folks have told me. It's simply the most utilitarian thing I've ever owned, and a Subie motor makes it moreso.

Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:36 am

YAECT.

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:16 am

tencentlife wrote: YAECT.

Yet Another Engine Conversion Thread?

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:24 am

I think maybe when things get a little bland on the forum (i.e. not enough cool pictures) we tend to revert to engine debates!

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:30 am

dobryan wrote: tencentlife wrote: YAECT.

Yet Another Engine Conversion Thread?
Well done!

I assumed it was a wretching sound. :lol:

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:37 am

Quote: I assumed it was a wretching sound.

At first glance I thought you wrote "wrenching sound" and I was going to say "no, it's the sound I make when I get a faceful of coolant".

But you were way ahead of me.

Yes, dobryan, that's exactly what it means. The onomatopoeic quality was an unintended bonus.

So, joe, are you saying I'm falling behind on my juicy-pics quota?

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:41 am

tencentlife wrote: .. are you saying I'm falling behind on my juicy-pics quota?
I may be trying to do an SVX.. but I still like looking at your engines.

hmm.. That doesn't sound right.

Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:42 am

I'll bet you say that to all the girls.