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Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:08 am

Why we don't tow from the bumper:

Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:23 am

Yeah,that's a real bummer. Been there-done that. #-o I had a tow bar that screwed into the bumper holes for my late Bays. It worked fine around town. But the early Bay bumper brackets just don't cut it. Although not rare, they aren't easy to find in great shape.

Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:27 am

Who thinks that towing from a bus bumper is safe in the first place?

Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:19 pm

Quote: Who thinks that towing from a bus bumper is safe in the first place?

No one said it was safe. But U-hual used to rent tow bars that rested on the bumper and hooks and chain would bind it to frame and bumper. As far as I know they don't rent them anymore. And sometimes when you're young with little cash you kind of push the envelope to get things done. Sometimes all you need is to tow something a few blocks and improvisation comes into play.

Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:41 pm

Actually, those are rear brackets, but the front ones will do the same thing. I had some brackets made to take off the bumper and bolt in their place. I think the 4- 10mm bolts are plenty strong enough, though.
I love to flat tow (tow bar) cars. It is so easy and fuel efficient. But you are really a bit short on braking ability. There are a few brake systems out there that apply the towed vehicles brakes in conjunction with the front vehicle's.
Brake Buddy is one. They are almost $1000, so not for only a few uses.
Anybody have any experience using one of these? Or, any other flat towing ideas?
Al

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:37 pm

Could be worse. I have to weld plates on to where my bumper mounts or something. the metal has been torn, bent and elongated. Not sure if it was from a collision or towing.

I love(d) my towbar, but it has been modified, and I have been searching for someone that can replace the tongue mount so I can make it legal again.

Looking at some towing solutions in the U.S. I am horrified. How a lot of it isn't illegal I'll never understand

All I can say is get a proper tow bar. Not a bumper mount. Not one of those funny looking things with the towball sticking up on a shaft. A properly engineered towbar that takes either a Hayman Reece style hitch or a bolt on tongue.
Then this towbar needs to be secured to the frame rails dead flat, with grade 8 bolts. If it isn't, your rails will be toast. Trust me :(

Also unless you are towing something really light, you need a bare minimum of a properly adjusted hydraulic system or a nice electric brake system. I can recommend the Tekonsha Prodigy.
Incorrectly adjusted systems, especially hydraulic brakes can cause the equivalent of dozens of rear end nudges. not good for anything in the structure or drivetrain. Slop is your enemy.

Our daily driver (not a VW) does a fair bit of towing. A pop-top caravan fitted with electric brakes, and an ex commercial landscaping trailer fitted with hydraulics. I have also towed rental trailers far more often than I would like as they often use hydraulic or cable brakes which are incorrectly adjusted. The push me pull you effect is that bad it'd almost be possible to get whiplash!
This would leave your VW bumper behind somewhere on the road. Perhaps with a CV or two.

Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:44 pm

I guess I didn't get the drift. Joe Cool were you towing something with your bus, or were you towing your bus? If you were towing something, what was it? What I was referring to was towing your bus.

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:45 pm

BTDT. Not long afterward, got stopped for 'no F & R bumpers' :roll: and 'no front license plate'. Officer asked where the front plate was, so I told him the truth: it was still mounted to the bumper that pulled free of the body as we were towing the empty bus with a bumper-mounted tow bar. :oops: Officer saw no humor or irony in that & wrote me the ticket.

Continued on the 4K mile trip & fixed it on returning home. Wouldn't consider driving w/o bumpers today, or towing an early bus by the bumper.

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:59 pm

The brackets are the rears from the truck. I knew they were bent but I wasn't aware of how messed up they were until I replaced them yesterday. The original pics do a good job of showing where the weak spot in the bracket is.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:35 am

From the pics it looks like you probably towed from the bumper. And not from the tow hook on the bumper bracket. Towing or being towed there is a hook on the bracket.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:21 am

I'd say it's been picked up with an old school tow truck one too many times, after the simian notices he bent the bumper up he jumps on it to bend it back down when the owner isn't looking.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:08 am

babysnakes wrote: No one said it was safe. *But U-hual used to rent tow bars that rested on the bumper and hooks and chain would bind it to frame and bumper. As far as I know they don't rent them anymore. And sometimes when you're young with little cash you kind of push the envelope to get things done. Sometimes all you need is to tow something a few blocks and improvisation comes into play.

I have been looking through the archives all night and couldn't find what I was looking for exactly. Instead of starting a new thread to ask some questions and make some comments. I thought I would just hi-jack(or resurrect) this one. Its at least similar in nature.

*Uhaul doesn't rent them anymore but, I have used them for years. I've rented both kinds. The one for the front to tow the vehicle(Tow Bar) and the one for the rear to tow a trailer(Tow Hitch). I have used them with 99.9 percent success on a myriad of vehicles; including my westy. I own an old uhaul tow bar. Although the .1 percent failure was while towing my westy. The bumper was already bent and I hit a huge dip in the road where the pavement was seperated due to soil erosion next to a creek. I never had any trouble but that one incident.

If you guys have been following my Florida adventure of 2009? I had to leave my 77 tintop camper conversion on my property down there. I recently learned that it is against the law to park a vehicle on your own land if it isn't licensed. Since the temporary tags I bought in 09 expired long ago and some neighbor decided they could no longer tolerate looking at my bus through the trees; they turned me in. Since November 2010 I have been fined $25 a day for the priviledge of parking on my own land. Its not like I was spending the day at the beach and wanted a good and secured spot close by(like they have near the most popular beaches). So, I must go to FL and retrieve my eyesore before they take my property through a lien. I spoke with some officials and the fine had already tallied $2,000+. However, they promised to reduce it through an appeal. Mostly because I am from OH and ignorant(in most ways) to their arbitrary ordinances.

I have managed to borrow a V-8 Chevy pickup to tow it home. But, I have a few questions; especially after reading this thread. (1) Is FL to OH to far to flat tow a standard without the braking devices but, with well maintained bearings and such(without removing the axles)? (2) There was some mention of the early bays having crappy bumper supports which are unsafe for a uhaul tow bar. What about a 77; will that bumper support a tow bar on a trip of this magnatude? (3) There was also some mention of universal tow bars in this thread but, no real discussion of their usability, quality, or capacity. Harbor Freight has one for $80 that has a 5,000 lb. capacity. Does anyone know how it attaches to the vehicle, if it will work for a bus, and is a 5k cap. sufficient(as a kombi is more or less that weight) to tow it safely?

I suppose I could rent a trailer or a tow dolly but, like discussed previously in this thread; they are both a pain in the butt to load. And I really don't like how either rides. A tow dolly gives a jerky ride and a trailer is alot of added weight(without the braking device) and I feel a little iffy on towing something with that high of a profile on the crooked banking turns through the WV turnpike. And who knows if it will be snowing this coming weekend. Besides, both of these options cost a good bit and with gas prices and hotel fees I am going to get a soaking as it is. Plus, I still have to purchase some kind of tow light kit and perhaps a unversal towbar(as the uhaul version weighs a ton. Plus clumbersome and tiresome to attach; especially on ones own). I would really appreciate any insights some of the more experienced members here would have on these issues. So please give me a shout.

Thanks again ever so much, TH

ps. I know I'm too windy but, I've also been accused of not being specific enough. Danged if you do and danged if you don't. LOL!

Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:18 am

Your cheapness is going to bite you in the ass, buy this and flat tow it home, no need to disconnect anything if it's a manual trans. Sell the bar when you get home if you wish.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:05 am

busdaddy wrote: Your cheapness is going to bite you in the ass, buy this and flat tow it home, no need to disconnect anything if it's a manual trans. Sell the bar when you get home if you wish.

Thanks for being specific. LOL. And yes I have seen all the short answers plugging his bar in the archives that I read all night. I didn't ask about his bar did I. Not that I have anything against it. Except one has to get by with what one can. Unfortunately, I don't have a magical incantation that will make me crap $100 bills. I am on disability not lottery annuities.

I am however, stuck between the preverbial rock and hard place. Either the uhaul which I have experience and confidence(but is none the less attached to the bumper, that is purported unsafe) or the universial which I have never laid eyes on. Not to mention I must move the vehicle by the 8th or another set of fines will be attached which there will be no appeal from. I just found out about this on the first. And I just don't have that kind of cash laying around. If I had more time to plan and save for it; I would by one just because of all the press he's received on here.

I would fully love to have a sweet bar like that. By the way how much is his rated for. I wanted an informed opinion not a pantsing or a spanking. I am disappointed. You uasually are much kinder and more explanatory. Have I upset you or something? I certainly hope not. I have always valued your opinion.

L8tr, TH

p.s. I have towed back and forth from OH and WV with no problems. But thats not that far. Fl to OH is far cry longer. I am merely going by what I have read here though. Quite honestly if I hadn't read it here it wouldn't have been a concern.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:21 am

Allright, the front bumper on a late bus is really just a decorative skin attached with 4 8mm bolts, the real protection is the bulge in the body behind it, because it's part of the body you can't get any straps or clamps around it to attach to something meaty, it's called a bumper not a puller for a reason :wink: The tow bar attaches to the beam, you won't find a more solid place to grab anywhere on the bus, although a trailer is the ultimate weapon a well made bar like the one I linked to is proven and as safe as it gets for flat towing. Because of it's reputation it's also easy to sell when you're done with it, even if you dump it at a loss it's still money well spent.

The U-haul bar may be OK for a short trip across town but not a trip like you're proposing. I can imagine the conversation in the truck now: "Dude roll down a window!, cough, cough...... warn me before you do that again!, no more beef jerky for you!, cough, cough..... Hey that hill wasn't so bad, looks like it's downhill for a while now, hand me the beef jerky,......Wow! look at that bus thats passing us!, it looks just like mine but with no front bumper, hey wait........hey, HEY!"

Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:53 am

wow that sounds like a hell of a trip, in the winter too. rented truck, tow bar, hotels, meals, fuel?

how much is it to re-register for another year? then you could deal with it later and cheaper?

Sorry if thats an ignorant idea, i have no idea how it works down there. here that would be about $75 tops for the year (that is, if i didnt have like $800 in fines to pay! :P )

Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:39 am

the old skool U-haul bumper chained towbars won't work, they need to cain AROUND the bumper and the bays don't have open space behind the bumper.

you can use the harbor freight one, but I prefer the roadmaster one they sell at Tractor supply or Autozone for a few more $$
I don't like the "cast Iron/Steel" headpiece on the harbor frieght one..
I prefer the formed steel headpiece of the roadmaster version.

you'll want to remove the stock tin bumper, it's just decorative anyways. you WILL NEED to drill THRU your body bumper, and use long bolts to hold on 2 body mount brackets. it is best to mount them just under the bumper but not too far rearward (not under vehicle)

While not the exact same, 73+ bays have a similiar under bumper structure to the vanagons.
we had to rig ours on the side of the road when we had a break down on the way south on our NY to Fl trip,
I tow'd mom's 86 westy from N Myrtle beach TO Florida and with help from the autotrain only from DC back to NY. but all in all was ~1000miles behind my 1980 camper (89 jetta engine)
click image to make bigger

Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:53 pm

Our bumpers were caught up in the transition of the rock solid '50's and early '60's and the '80's onward plastic coverup.
Universal clamp on and chained tow bars were great. In at least some of the interum years our bays had tow and towing eyes. Not sure what years but mine and also a '70 did. They are also described in the owners manuals on how to use them. Check your years manual about it to see if if was a feature.

EDIT Forgot to mention those eyes are great for being towed off the road, around the corner, or any emergency situation. Not for any other situation. And I carry a tow strap if I need it or anyone else does.

But for any serious tow get a good tow bar or a dolly. Did anyone mention the value of AAA?

Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:19 pm

Buy the good towbar, use it, and sell it if you need to. You will get your bus home, and will recover most of the costs.

When I bought mine I looked a long time for a used one and realized after I bought it why no one sells them. Because they work and work right when you need them to.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:11 pm

busdaddy wrote: Allright, the front bumper on a late bus is really just a decorative skin attached with 4 8mm bolts, the real protection is the bulge in the body behind it, because it's part of the body you can't get any straps or clamps around it to attach to something meaty, it's called a bumper not a puller (roflmao) for a reason :wink: The tow bar attaches to the beam, you won't find a more solid place to grab anywhere on the bus, although a trailer is the ultimate weapon a well made bar like the one I linked to is proven and as safe as it gets for flat towing. Because of it's reputation it's also easy to sell when you're done with it, even if you dump it at a loss it's still money well spent.

That's at least more informative than the "buy this, cuz I said so..." retorect that I 've read so far. Thank you for the info. I didn't know that they were flimsy skins. I only saw the stuff on the early bays. I never had that problem with my old one. The humor was cute but, I don't puff, puff, pass, cough, cough anymore. Not for sometime and never beyond rationale. At least since I was young and dumb....

rustbus wrote: wow that sounds like a hell of a trip, in the winter too. rented truck, tow bar, hotels, meals, fuel? how much is it to re-register for another year? then you could deal with it later and cheaper? Sorry if thats an ignorant idea, i have no idea how it works down there. here that would be about $75 tops for the year (that is, if i didnt have like $800 in fines to pay! :P )

Well there is also another matter with their ordinance that they are letting me slide on. The fact that I have no structure on the property yet. If I bought a metal building or carport(thousand or more) and licensed the vehicle in FL($310 first time fee) + insurance; then I could leave it there. I have to have the vehicle here for inspection in OH to license it here($45+$6 for inspection). Or I could pay storage fees somewhere down there(who knows how much $? and I would still have to make the trip). No matter what I would be throwing good money after bad. I'm borrowing the V8 chevy from my Nephew. Its one of his farm trucks. I would borrow his trailer but, he is using that to haul hay. I will only need to stay in a hotel/motel one night/day and Taco Hell is cheap. However, gas is $3.50 - $4.00 a gallon and his truck sucks a lot o' gas. The cost of a tow bar maybe over the top right now. It would do me little good to get half way back and run out of cash for gas. I will try some calculations and some research on gas prices here to there.

danfromsyr wrote: the old skool U-haul bumper chained towbars won't work, they need to cain (Are you talking about the flat iron hooks that grip around the back edge of the bumpers?)AROUND the bumper and the bays don't have open space behind the bumper. you can use the harbor freight one, but I prefer the roadmaster one they sell at Tractor supply or Autozone for a few more $$ I don't like the "cast Iron/Steel" headpiece on the harbor frieght one.. I prefer the formed steel headpiece of the roadmaster version. (How much are one of those?)

you'll want to remove the stock tin bumper, it's just decorative anyways. you WILL NEED to drill THRU your body bumper, and use long bolts to hold on 2 body mount brackets. it is best to mount them just under the bumper but not too far rearward (not under vehicle) (Where do you get those? Anything special or can I get something like that from fasten-all?)

While not the exact same, 73+ bays have a similiar under bumper structure to the vanagons.
we had to rig ours on the side of the road when we had a break down on the way south on our NY to Fl trip, I tow'd mom's 86 westy from N Myrtle beach TO Florida and with help from the autotrain only from DC back to NY. but all in all was ~1000miles behind my 1980 camper (89 jetta engine) (Finally a been there, done that story)

Desertbusman wrote: Our bumpers were caught up in the transition of the rock solid '50's and early '60's and the '80's onward plastic coverup.
Universal clamp on and chained tow bars were great. In at least some of the interum years our bays had tow and towing eyes. Not sure what years but mine and also a '70 did. They are also described in the owners manuals on how to use them. Check your years manual about it to see if if was a feature. Thanks for that I'll check. Is that similar to what danfromsyr above is talking about with the body mounts?

Randy in Maine wrote: Buy the good towbar, use it, and sell it if you need to. You will get your bus home, and will recover most of the costs.

When I bought mine I looked a long time for a used one and realized after I bought it why no one sells them. Because they work and work right when you need them to.

Hey Randy. I know what you guys are saying is probably the best solution. But, I have to have money to get there and back. Sitting on the side of the road with my fancy new hitch is gonna do me a lot of good. You and Bus Daddy both have said sell it when I get back. I am not that cheap. I am just poor. If I made it back I would surely keep it as well. You guys aren't getting it. You have to have it to spend it. I don't have a credit card. And if I had it how long would it take to get here? If I picked it up on the way down; how much gas would I spend on the detour from I77 to I95? Thats probably a $100+ right there. I am not discounting what you say. Jeez, you know I've asked for your advice several times. I have qoutes of yours in my saved files. My friend Danno who is gonna help me drive has to be back by the 8th as well. Drama, drama, drama...

I will call FL and see if I can postpone it somehow. Thats my only option short of getting the Harbor Freight tow bar or the one from (Tractor supply or Autozone) depending on how much that is. It sucks being poor. But, that is just life. I would have the money for Jeremy's tow bar if it wasn't for property taxes and my six month insurance renewal; that all fell last month and this month. I also have to pay my tax lady this month.

Thanks for all your input fellas. Its definitely food for thought. I have til Friday to go or postpone.

L8tr, TH[/b]