TheSamba.com :: View topic - The poor man's high-top build

Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:32 pm

Hello All,

I recently had a Fiberine high-top installed and thought I'd start a topic detailing the build up from an unemployed guys perspective. I intend for this to be a picture heavy topic, showing some of the unique build methods I've been using to make my van more livable and comfortable on those treks to Baja or Telluride.

To get a little history on the high-top project you can check out this topic:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427052&highlight=fiberine

Installing the new top at Fiberine in Los Angeles

High-top installed!

I then painted to match my black and white theme, made and installed a 3/4" EMT safari style rack(~$15), and fixed my bridging/sand ladders and solar panel to the rack. The rack itself weighs less than 10 lbs, the solar close to 4 lbs, and the sand ladders weigh in at a hefty 15lbs each.

I needed some more light in the bunk/overhead storage areas so I bought some cheap windows (~$60 all said and done) down at the local RV Store. The installation was a bit scary, cutting into my brand new hightop and all. It turned out to be no big deal though, just be patient :) The scale is a bit small but they allow plenty of light. And like I mentioned earlier - I'm a broke, unemployed, guy!

In preparation for one of my favorite seasons, Winter, I am insulating the top. My original idea was to use cardboard as the insulator, but decided against it as I found it a little too hard to work with. Cardboard seems to have a pretty good R-value at around 4-5R/In. but it was just too rigid to flow with the curves. I decided on using 16X48X2" sections of fiberglass insulation (~$30) I found at the local hardware store. They are rated at 6.7R fully fluffed, but I had to compress them pretty good in some areas. For my "framing" I used salvaged 2X1"s sourced from the Habitat Home Supply store (~$15). I have only managed to rough finish the front cargo area so far.

That's it so far! I plan to finish the insulation with either a heavy fabric, a light carpet, or with wall paper. The noise canceling properties of the insulation are great - it rained and hailed pretty hard the other day and I found that, in the part that is insulated, the weather was hardly noticeable.

Feel free to ask questions, criticize, suggest better methods, etc.

Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:57 pm

Looking great! 8)

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:23 pm

Indoor/outdoor boat carpet with a ton of mastic should give it a good stick. Nice work, good upgrade.
I want a boat top :-({|=
For real I like it, I really do want one.
How much higher is it than a westy roof?

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:30 pm

I'd stick a plastic vapour barrier sheet between the humans and that fibreglass pink insulation, if I was you!

The insulation is going to get pretty saturated, otherwise. Sure, it won't rust the top out without it, but it's still going to be kind of humid & gross over time.

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:40 pm

Witless Joe wrote: I'd stick a plastic vapour barrier sheet between the humans and that fibreglass pink insulation, if I was you!

The insulation is going to get pretty saturated, otherwise. Sure, it won't rust the top out without it, but it's still going to be kind of humid & gross over time.

X2 try and work in a very good vapor barrier.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:33 am

Didn't Fiberine offer the insulation and finished interior? I ordered mine that way and was sure glad I did!

Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:39 am

That's a great point on the vapor barrier - I hadn't even thought of that. I'll make sure to source some used plastic to place between my finish material and the fiberglass.

I was unaware Fiberine offered an insulation package. It was somewhat of a struggle to convince them to even put the hightop back into production, so that my my main effort. My hunch is that the insulation package would have priced me out of the market though. My whole process will hopefully cost less than $100 and I'll be able to build it the way I want - I'm sure Fiberine doesn't offer vintage wall paper as one of their finish options :)

Thanks for the comments and suggestions - you have surely saved me from a lot of heartache this winter and spring.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:52 am

I would go with rigid foam insualtion vs fiberglass in this application.
and possibly topcoated with a layer of the foil bubble wrap (covered in headliner fabric?)
it can even usually be scavanged from construction site dumpsters.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:55 am

That looks wicked. Nice job all around. :)

Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:10 am

danfromsyr wrote: I would go with rigid foam insualtion vs fiberglass in this application.
and possibly topcoated with a layer of the foil bubble wrap (covered in headliner fabric?)
it can even usually be scavanged from construction site dumpsters.

second that, closed cell foam or rigid foam better that fiberglass

Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:15 pm

micklongley wrote: Hello All,

Nice - Dunno if I've seen it around with the new top. I definitely remember seeing your distinctive paint job around town.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:11 pm

Even tho you've done the fibreglass insulation, I'd agree with the harder insulation. The fibreglass will get wet, it will give off fibres which are not good, may even give off gases, will absorb smells (I think) and I think the harder would be better noise control. How much would you be out if you changed at this stage? Better now than later or next year or next year.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:55 pm

For a budget install like this, I'd stick with fiberglass and a vapor barrier over rigid foam. The top is curved, and the rigid stuff is flat. Not a good combination, since it doesn't bend at all, and you'd end up losing space or having gaps. With a well-sealed plastic vapor barrier, moisture shouldn't be a problem, and all the materials should be easy to scrounge or relatively cheap to buy. Definitely not optimal, but it should work well enough and it's halfway done already.

Polyethylene closed cell foam would be closer to ideal, since it's flexible but won't absorb moisture, and it's not terribly expensive. A lot of european DIY camper conversions seem to use this. Closed cell foams have greater R-value than fiberglass and open-cell foams. You could also use thin, flexible board screwed into your furring strips to create a rigid and smooth ceiling, and then use a slow-expanding closed cell foam injected through drilled holes to fill the gap between your ceiling and the top. This would also give you a very nice surface to put your wallpaper on and great insulation.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:05 pm

Your finishing layer should be very light as the weight of all that carpet or whatever you use will be pulling straight down off the cardboard. Pulling every thing else with it I would wager. Rigid might have been a better go.

Perhaps Wallpaper on the cardboard?

I do love the Top though, those are the way to go. :wink:

Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:13 pm

Good stuff!

Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:13 pm

WOW! Thanks for all the input. I have a quick update for y'all. This weekend I went out to Telluride for the Indie Film Fest. I was able to try the top bunk out for the first time (without insulation over the sleeping area). It worked great but would be a bit scary for a person susceptible to claustrophobia :)

Im excited to get it all insulated. Going home from Telluride I took a mountain pass (Ophir Pass for those Durango locals!) and had yet to secure my items above the cockpit. The pass requires quite a bit of clearance and momentum for 2wd vehicles so much of my stuff above the cab came down to the floor and ripped some of my cardboard out as a result. This makes me think I might give the recycled method of insulation another shot since I have to redo a bit of it anyhow. I really don't want to buy rigid foam, as this would have the same issue as insulating with cardboard like I had originally intended.

I will be sure to keep all ideas in mind and will be posting up what I finally end up with - It may end up being a mix of a few materials... we shall see!

Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:17 pm

Don't forget the big air bubble sheets, light and good.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:48 pm

How much are these bad boys?
Look way more sleek then the timber tech one.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:03 pm

HeftySmurf wrote: How much are these bad boys?
Look way more sleek then the timber tech one.

I believe under 1k

You just gotta let them know you have heard about their bad rep and let them make it up to you :wink:

Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:05 am

micklongley wrote: This makes me think I might give the recycled method of insulation another shot since I have to redo a bit of it anyhow. I really don't want to buy rigid foam, as this would have the same issue as insulating with cardboard like I had originally intended.

When i had my headliner down to install sunroof and poptop, I used the shredded rubbery carpet pad from home depot on my metal roof for sound and insulation. It's not closed cell, but it was cheap and very easy to work with - using spray/contact adhesive. It's not quite an inch thick but it will make a huge difference for sound and thermal conduction. Its simple to cut/mold and sticks like a champ (it has a nice flat backing). You might still want a moisture barrier on top of it but that really depends on how permeable your headliner layer is. If you use a headliner material thats not porous (recommended) you will be fine w/o a barrier.