TheSamba.com :: View topic - Automatic Vanagon 3.3:1 Ring and Pinion available soon...

Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:35 am

Hi All, first post over here. Usually on Brickyard...

Some of you know I'm searching for the holy grail of auto set ups to match well with the subaru EJ25 lump...

My goal is to improve on the widely accepted simple modification of adding an air cooler where the old water one was to make sure the ATF stays cool enough with the extra power going through.

As its impossible to increase the SIZE of clutch plates internally, we went one further and ground down the end shims internally to ADD AN EXTRA steel shim and clutch plate. So instead of 4 for 1st and 2nd we now have 5, and instead of 3 for 3rd and reverse we have 4... I'm really happy with this as a solution for coping with the extra power and allied with the air cooler = all good.

However the other issue for me is that I currently have an NK final drive, which as some of you may know has a ratio of 4.09. This literally means that at 70mph the engine is reving at 4k rpm. Not ideal. My easy option is to switch to an NJ box with a ratio of 3.7 which would bring the revs down a bit...

OR....

I could have the final drive gears custom made.... :D My search has led me to a workshop in the UK. They said they can make a pair with a ratio of anything I wanted. I am aiming for 3.3:1.

SO....

Would anyone be interested in going in with me on an order? The prices go down dramatically with every pair ordered...

The quote I have had is below. Personally I think I could stretch to the 6 or 7 pair price; anything above that is a bit much in my opinion. Let me have your honest thoughts. I would consider buying a few myself and selling off as and when buyers arrive for the sake of keeping the project moving. You can see how the price drops exponentially with the numbers ordered: (multiply price below by 1.5 to get $$$USD).

Price for Supply Complete 1pr :- £2500.00 per pair
" " " " " " 2pr :- £1645.00 per pair
" " " " " " 3pr :- £1185.00 per pair
" " " " " " 4pr :- £965.00 per pair
" " " " " " 5pr :- £785.00 per pair
" " " " " " 6pr :- £695.00 per pair
" " " " " " 7pr :- £635.00 per pair
" " " " " " 8pr :- £575.00 per pair
" " " " " " 9pr :- £515.00 per pair
" " " " " " 10pr :- £495.00 per pair and so on...

Obviously I could barter a little too if we could come up with a few definites...

Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:39 am

Brother,

I have no clue on the combination of final drive numbers...it's all a foreign language to me, kinda like Korean Hangul :roll:

One thing I do know is that the US dollar to UK pound exchange rate is in the toilet (around .65). That makes for some mighty expensive gears.

''''''''''''''''''1pr :- £2500.00 per pair ($3,800)
" " " " " " 2pr :- £1645.00 per pair ($2,500)
" " " " " " 3pr :- £1185.00 per pair ($1,800)
" " " " " " 4pr :- £965.00 per pair ($1,500)
" " " " " " 5pr :- £785.00 per pair (1,200)
" " " " " " 6pr :- £695.00 per pair ($1,070)
" " " " " " 7pr :- £635.00 per pair ($975)
" " " " " " 8pr :- £575.00 per pair ($880)
" " " " " " 9pr :- £515.00 per pair ($790)
" " " " " " 10pr :- £495.00 per ($760)

Good luck on your venture and I hope you get some takers.

Gary

Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:43 am

samuelvincentvella wrote: subaru EJ25

Great idea... but I don't even have one of ^those yet. :(

Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:31 am

Its arguable whether you even need one. Sure the WBX might take a little longer to get up to speed, but it'll give you better cruising revs.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:18 am

samuelvincentvella wrote: Its arguable whether you even need one. Sure the WBX might take a little longer to get up to speed, but it'll give you better cruising revs.

There will be no argument when the WBX decides to blow itself up. :wink:

Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:52 am

Just to clarify this is not my main business or source of income. I work in a hospital. This is just to see if there are others who are in the same boat.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:54 am

Hey Mate..
Running Westy with a stripped down 2007 Subie 2.5 VVT Engine with a KEP Stage II Clutch Pac, and a 4.83 R&P with a .77 4th gear. Cruise all day long at 65 mph @ aprox 3000 RPM's. Also running a "EMC Stinger" Engine Management Unit. Lots of power and few needs to down shift on hills or to pass etc. She's a runner and gets great gas mileage.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:54 am

DubNuts wrote: Hey Mate..
Running Westy with a stripped down 2007 Subie 2.5 VVT Engine with a KEP Stage II Clutch Pac, and a 4.83 R&P with a .77 4th gear. Cruise all day long at 65 mph @ aprox 3000 RPM's. Also running a "EMC Stinger" Engine Management Unit. Lots of power and few needs to down shift on hills or to pass etc. She's a runner and gets great gas mileage.

What does the Kennedy stage II clutch pac consist of? Hadnt heard of it, and they didnt mention it when I bought all the bits for my conversion from them...

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:33 am

DubNuts is talking standard trans vs this thread is about regearing the R&P of the AT trans. apples and oranges entirely.

and Tiico or GoWesty were also looking into a new vanagon AT R&P before, the pricing is comparable to it's near $1k US$
then add in a full trans rebuild.

one piece i'd like to add this thread is that for the AT internal clutches, one can swap in the Trans portion from an 80's Audi 5000 or 200 Turbo
they had 4 planetary gears instead of 3 and 7 clutches instead of 6(?)

samuelvincentvella wrote: DubNuts wrote: Hey Mate..
Running Westy with a stripped down 2007 Subie 2.5 VVT Engine with a KEP Stage II Clutch Pac, and a 4.83 R&P with a .77 4th gear. Cruise all day long at 65 mph @ aprox 3000 RPM's. Also running a "EMC Stinger" Engine Management Unit. Lots of power and few needs to down shift on hills or to pass etc. She's a runner and gets great gas mileage.

What does the Kennedy stage II clutch pac consist of? Hadnt heard of it, and they didnt mention it when I bought all the bits for my conversion from them...

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:57 am

I am surprised there are no takers interested in these custom ring and pinions for automatics. Agreed, they can be expensive, but nothing like having a transmission that matches the engine properly. On conversions, the transmissions can be overlooked, but are as important as the other parts. Maybe if you change the thread to Custom Automatic Ring and Pinions group buy, you might get some more interest. Also cross post into the classifieds. You may also just want to get one for yourself and let others fend for themselves. This will bump your thread. mark

Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:12 am

I would be interested depending how low we can get the price.

With your build, the only difference in the forward clutch between the one that holds the extra clutch disc is the pressure plate is stepped allowing the extra disc and steel. Grinding it down accomplishes the same thing.

There is also a bigger diameter direct reverse clutch and I think it has an extra disc in it also.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:14 am

Oh, change the title of this post so that everyone with an Automatic knows to look at it. :wink:

Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:07 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=325455

You might find something more in here.

Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:39 pm

Any pointers on how I cross post to classifieds?

Also, if there are any shipping issues, my misses' family is in CA, so getting bits to and from here should be easy...

Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:22 pm

Call Ken at German Transaxle of America and Brian at Smallcar to pick there brains.

They both have tried to get this done.

I know Ken has a list of interested people.

I would think between all a 100 sets could be sold.

Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:45 am

great shout jrobe, thanks.

I'm talking to the machine shop to work out the finer details pertaining to prototypes etc so lets see how many people are potentially interested.

Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:05 am

Hi samuelvincentvella, I'm definitely interested. I would like something more closer to 3.25. But if you have enough people going with the 3.4, I'm interested. Would you be the one shipping them to the states?

Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:20 am

Hi rob

Actually we've decided to go for 3.3:1. That should be agreeable with you? Were at prototype stages now but I anticipate testing should be finished in 6 weeks and we'll have some nice data to publish. You could help speed up the process if you'd like to assist in the first group buy. If you or anyone else are seriously interested, PM me for details. Its looking very promising so far :)

Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:18 pm

I have three NJ gear boxes for sale if anyone is interested.

Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:48 pm

Hello All,
I recently purchased a '90 automatic Westy with a Subaru WRX 2.0 turbo engine in it. Sweet ride, it goes from 55 to 75 in the blink of an eye. But I'm worried about how long the engine will last at high RPM's, so I am very interested in having a taller gearset. I even considered converting the Westy to a manual, which I'm told is possible, but I'm not a mechanic, and I imagine that would be a costly route. With that said, what are NJ gear boxes?

Feel free to PM me with any information. My budget is a bit tight at the moment, but I'm getting ready to sell 2 other Westies real soon.