TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1979 Bay Westy to Subaru Engine Conversion Blog

Fri May 27, 2011 8:10 pm

She's alive! The bus that is. I ended up taking the bus up to Rocky Mountain Westy in Fort Collins to wrap up the wiring and get the bus tuned up and driving. I picked it up today and drove it home (about 50 miles). All I can say is WOW!

A lot of thanks go out to RMW for pitching in and wrapping this project up. More details to come and of course a video for proof will be posted on my blog. I'll let you all know my thoughts on the various issues still to consider (like final R&P ratio for rpms), sound proofing and insulation, etc. as I drive it more. Right now I can't stop smiling.

Tue May 31, 2011 11:05 am

Here are a few shots of our first day trip in the Westy with the Subie engine in back. We drove from the front range up through Conifer, CO and down into the Buffalo Creek area. It felt great on the steep and sustained incline from Denver to Conifer and was a blast to drive (still smiling). Next project is sound proofing and insulation! Even with a subie motor, it is still a metal can inside...

Parked for a picnic:

Here are my two little ones...hope I am not causing early deafness due to the noise!

The wifey:

Tue May 31, 2011 12:56 pm

Bus Looks Great!

Re: Sound proofing, I think the air intakes contribute significantly to noise transfer from the engine compartment, if you consider they can act as resonating tubes to transfer the engine compartment noise up the air intake shaft all the way to the roof… perhaps also trying stock T1 “type” exhaust tips if you are getting lots of exhaust system noise? (With inner perforated metal and fiberglass)

Tue May 31, 2011 1:38 pm

Finished project pictures?

We also took our watercooled bus out over the holiday weekend to the Olympic Peninsula.
Hills that used to be 30-35 MPH with the T4 are now 50-55 MPH hills, and so on. 8)

Tue May 31, 2011 1:47 pm

I have some RAAMat and Insolite on the way. My only concern is having to pull the entire interior out to do the job, thus taking the bus off the road. She's not a DD but I just got her back on the road! I hope the effort is worth the reward.

Re. the heater channels: Good tip. I have the rear Y tube pulled out since I don't have heater boxes anymore. I still have the front Y and tubing but hope the RAAMat will help reduce any leftover sounds echoling through thos tubes. We'll see...

Tue May 31, 2011 1:59 pm

How'd you get the y tube out? Cutting the weld looks trivial but I haven't done it yet because i can't see how it can be manoeuvred out. It has to be pulled so I can make an air barrier there to stop precious cooling air escaping behind the rad.

Looks like you are living the dream there.
heaps of people have pulled out their interior for various reasons. if you research and plan it out ahead of time the strip, insulate and refit shouldn't even affect your driving as you don't use it as a DD.

Tue May 31, 2011 2:18 pm

Krautski, I have a blog in my signature you can follow to get the good details and pictures. I will take a video of the engine starting up and running. Any pics of your conversion? It Sure is nice to actually go up a hill without rocking it front to back, isn't it? :lol:

Ratcamper, yep an angle grinder, safety glasses, time and some patience and it came out. I had to rebuild the rear support bar anyway as mine was bent and mangled; plus, it allowed me to run the radiator lines through custom holes cut into the rear support bar!

For all those wondering: 8 months and about the cost of a Raby Camper Special turnkey engine (but I went a bit overboard and didn't skimp on quality or updgrades). Could it be done cheaper, absolutely.

Tue May 31, 2011 6:24 pm

Great to see you made it through the project. I have talked with a lot of people that have been interested in doing this conversion after seeing mine and most get discouraged pretty quickly after they here how much time and energy go into it.

I'm sure you will love the drive. I have about 7k on mine since the conversion and it still make me giggle when I am passing people going 70+ over the mountain passes. It is also pretty forgiving at the pump. I have been averaging 21 to 28 miles per gallon depending on driving conditions.

I took mine to VW's on the green on May 22, and a couple of the guys from Rockey Mountain Westy stopped by and we talked about the conversions for quite awhile. They said they were helping someone finish up a conversion on a bay and that it was nicely done. Sure that was yours.

I am in the process of selling my bus. After I put in a freeway flyer trans in it the buyer will be picking it up in September. I'm already looking for another one to restore as I have come across a 2.7l biturbo Audi donor car (300+hp). Probably overkill, but why not... I feel I have an addiction at this point.

Anyways...I'll keep my eyes out for a white Westy in the fast lane.

Tue May 31, 2011 6:39 pm

Thanks Leadville. It was well worth the time, effort, and blood to get it done and done right. It adds up but the payback is worth it already for me.

Yep, Mike and his brother from RMW helped me out with the wrap up of wiring and getting the system mostly tuned. They said they had talked to you at the show. We stopped by late on Sunday and most people were leaving or gone already. Would have loved to see your conversion.

Have you been able to set up shop yet after the fire?

Tue May 31, 2011 6:56 pm

GeorgeL wrote: skills@eurocarsplus wrote: most thermostats have a bleeder built into them. at worst, you may have to drill a bigger hole in it, thats all

Not true with the subaru. The subaru thermostat is located on the inlet side of the water pump before the water goes into the engine. Water is piped from the outlet side of the engine to the thermostat bulb which controls the opening of the thermostat. In a stock subaru this water goes through the heater core. This means that the heater core gets all of the heat produced by the engine until the coolant after the heater gets hot enough to open the thermostat.

The problem in a conversion is that if someone does not understand the way the Subaru system works they might either omit the bypass hose or they will run it through such an large heater core that hot water never makes it to the thermostat to open it. This is the source of overheating and inconsistent cooling issues.

The best solution I've seen is the Tom Shiels thermostat housing:

Which provides a dedicated coolant feedback loop to the thermostat independent of the heater. The dedicated feedback loop hooks to the brass fitting on the aluminum housing while the heater return goes to the larger nipple on the water pump housing.

RatCamper wrote: Just another thought. if your radiator is arranged anything like mine, the cargo floor will get HOT. If you have a false floor or whatever hopefully it'll insulate enough.

I think that with a downflow system this problem will be somewhat less.

all that does is add a return BEFORE the thermostat. if you plan on running without a heater core, i don't see the need for it. otoh, i see why it would be needed to run a heater core, good God, a mile of water spiking the engine would for sure cause a temp fluxuation. and you can see the bleeder on the t stat in the picture....

congrats! we need pix of this thing! how does it feel? must hustle right along

Tue May 31, 2011 6:56 pm

I haven't broke ground yet, but if all goes well we will this June. I have replaced most of my tools and am currently working at my friends shop down in Frisco where we are working on his 1960 double cab. We are building up a syncro vanagon frame with a VR6 engine that will be the platform for it.

When I do get up and running I still am planning on developing a cooling and heating system kit to converted the older buses to water cooled. I am working on a website now and hope to have it up and running by the time we reopen later this year.

Tue May 31, 2011 7:24 pm

It hustles along alright. I'm not real happy with the gearing. I'm at about 3300rpms at 65mph. I have the automatic trans with a 4.09:1 final drive. Not much choice for me there beyond a 3.75, if I can find one, or swapping to a manual. No chance of swapping to a manual as the wife said automatic or no bus! I might go to a 215/75r15 tire and see if the extra height might brings the rpms down a bit.

I know the is a buy in England that's developed two 3.31:1 r&ps for the auto but they aren't readily available and look to be expensive.

Pics and video to come.

Tue May 31, 2011 7:36 pm

cool! i do not know tons about bus automatics, but don't the rabbits and A2 jetta automatics share the same guts? again, don't hold me to it but i thought the 010 auto box was interchangeable with bus internals. here is a link with the codes if it helps

http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/VW_020_transmission.shtml#Automatic

ok, shoot me, i am a watercooled guy too :P

Tue May 31, 2011 7:45 pm

Why dink around with an 010?

http://www.subarugears.com/index_files/Page388.htm

This notion, for anyone considering a conversion, is a must. It is a crying shame that the developer is based in OZ and the shipping price for one of his drag and drop Subagear boxes would be prohibitive.

M

Tue May 31, 2011 7:55 pm

The reverse cut gears are awesome if you want a manual transmission. Not much for the autos yet. Maybe a Freeway flier with the 3.75 final gears...might get 200-300 drop in rpms at speed. Is anyone out there running an automatic with the 3.75 final gears? Impressions?

Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:15 am

Hi direcord,
What a great thread. I've also been following your Blog.
I am so glad to have found it.
I am restoring my 1975 Westy and about ready to install my tired 1.8l FI engine back in the bus just so I can get back out on the road.
Saturday though I go to look at a 1997 Subaru 2.2l that a friends son went to change the radio station, missed the corner and rolled it on it's top. 1/2 hour later it was back on it's wheels and they drove it home but I can get it for next to nothing. It's an automatic and my bus is a stick so a little different experience then you have.
I've been reading rjes site pretty close and like what he has but it's both expensive and over sea's. I'd also need to source a flywheel with his kit.
The Kennedy kit comes with the flywheel, and is local. Is the kit you bought the one they sell for the vanagon's? I think it is #kep6500.
I have an old 75' parts bus I thought I'd use to mock things up in first. Know that I see you thread I may just go for it.
Mike

Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:29 pm

Glad it's going well for you OP.

I'm in the middle of an argument on another forum about mine, well about legislation. The thing at the core of anything an Aussie wants to do more complicated than scratching their butt.
Assuming I'm right and don't need engineer certification my conversion would have come in around ...hm. I'll say below $1500 to be safe and avoid nickel and dime cost creep. If I need certification, to be honest I'm screwed. Nothing wrong with my work, but all the costs involved in taking it to an engineer just once would set me back at least $1200. Not the sort of $ I can extract from my rectum.

The SubaruGears bloke actually suggested I should put a subie transmission in my bay a couple of days ago :lol: I'd love to and I learned that the early EA transmissions have the same basic guts as the later EJ transmissions just with a different bolt pattern. However my motor has neither. It has a replacement engine bellhousing (that bit behind the flywheel) with a VW pattern. No adapter needed ;) Maybe in the future.

May I ask why you can't use a subie slushbox? Is it an interference issue with the beam?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:59 pm

Hey Dan,

I was looking at your blog pics on that massive radiator you had wizards do for you, and then I saw the size you claimed it to be: 17.5 x 28.1 x 1.25

cm? Inches? I'm assuming inches. You mention that it is twice the size of the original used in the Impreza. But all of the references I can find for an Impreza Rad are 27.1875" x 13.375" which is awful close to the size that Wizards built for you. Could you explain?

Also, what's the distance between the center frame rails?

I'd love to see a pic of your bus up on a lift! :)

M

Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:25 pm

The center frame rails are 26-29" apart. depending on where you measure. I'll leave the other questions to Dan...

Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:35 am

Uh...I'll have to go back and double check my numbers. Perhaps it would have been better to say volume versus size? Let me pull up old notes and see if I can clarify.

I'd love to see my bus on a lift, too! crawling under the bus on my back is getting old. I'll try to get a good shot of the front of the radiator as mounted between the framerails as well as the rear between the framerials for you.

The rails do flare and dimensions aren't the same up front as the are in the rear.