TheSamba.com :: View topic - Vanagon Engine Swap Recommendations

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:59 pm

Hi Everyone,

Well, to make a real long story real short - I've got a Westy that essentially needs a new engine. I'm thinking about putting in a Subaru engine as I've heard it's relatively easy. What I want to know is; What do I need to know? Which engine should I use? What will I need in addition to the engine? I'm trying to do this as economically as possibly but I want to make sure it's done well and doesn't just create a bunch of problems. Any suggestions, recommendations, etc. that anyone can give would be most appreciated! The 1984 Westy currently has in it a 1.9L Waterboxer if that helps. I'm hoping to have my trusted mechanic do the work but he hasn't done this specific swap before so any help anyone can provide would be great. Thanks!

- Ethan

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm

Here is one place to start looking, there are others.

http://www.smallcar.com

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:13 pm

Check out/join our group at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/subaruvanagon/

All you need to know is here.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:45 pm

I'd check the bostig setup out as well:

http://www.bostig.com/

Oh, and there are about 5 billion engine conversion threads on here so the best thing to do is put your reading hat on and do some research.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:52 pm

Get some behind the wheel time before you commit to any conversion.
There has got to be some members local to you willing to let you drive their van for a little while.
The subaruvanagon yahoo group is the best starting point if you decide that subaru is right for you. Check the files area there are answers for many of your questions there in the FAQ.
Good luck.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:25 pm

Are you at all DIY, even a little?

If the answer is "yes", then go for it. Check out the Bostig too.

If the answer is "no, not at all" and you don't intend to do the swap yourself and then maintain the van yourself, I would think pretty hard about an engine conversion.

VW mechanics like to work on stock van motors, they don't necessarily know about Subaru or Ford motors. Maybe you have or can find a mechanic who knows about these conversions and will work on them, but suppose he retires or you break down in Tumbleweed?

Bostig will give its customers fantastic technical support by phone and email, but they can't come turn the wrench for you. I'm not sure what the support options are for the Subaru conversions.

Maybe consider a rebuilt or beefed-up WBX engine.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a conversion - I l-o-v-e my Bostig - but think it through.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:26 pm

I use a Subaru mechanic when my Subaru motor needs service.

Here's a drop in 2.5 subaru conversion your vanagon mechanic can't screw up, for about $10,500, including his labor.

http://www.vanaru.com

or drive to Los Angeles and have Leon Korkin [email protected] do his conversion, out the door for $7,500.

or go to the Yahoo group and figure out how to do it yourself for $3,500

Welcome to thesamba, post a photo of your van, we like that around here :-)

Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:29 pm

I'm willing to do some work myself but the more involved stuff would definitely be done by a mechanic. Here's the situation, my wife and I just bought this
Westy in Colorado (I live in Washington). We had a mechanic do a pre buyer's inspection in Colorado and he told us everything was in great shape (120psi all cylinders, all systems working well).

Well it turns out, he lied to us - the compression is actually 20, 85, 140 and 125. The head gaskets are leaking and the two left head bolts have residue on them (leaking). I'm told a top end rebuild is going to be something like $3k all told. Someone recommended I think about buying a Suby engine and dropping that in instead since I should be able to find a halfway decent engine for $500-1000 and my mechanic (with no experience in swapping a Suby engine in) says generally he can install an engine for $1,000 or so (plus conversion parts). Of course my thinking is "well that sounds great - a newer, more powerful engine and a lot cheaper".

Am I totally out of line here? Is my line of thinking sound or have I been drinking the Cool Aid?

Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:43 pm

yes, you are dreaming of a $2000 conversion, by a mechanic with no conversion experience.. not going to happen, sorry to bust your bubble..

there is a reason why smallcar conversions cost

"$6475 plus the cost of the motor, which is generally between $1000 and $4000."
thats from here:
http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=11

Sorry you bought a van with a dead motor, welcome to the club. The Subaru 2.5 is an excellent choice. But it would be cheaper to drop in a used 2.1 waterboxer, pro install for about 2K or less, which could keep you going for quite a while. (maybe smallcar has a spare waterboxer they can sell you for $500)

During which time you can read the classifieds here and shop for a SubieVan..

Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:46 pm

There was a recent thread on compression tests and our resident savant 10cent explained how they are variable and why for these engines you shouldn't put much stock in them. Other threads of people who had professionals that figured they could do an engine conversion, no big deal, well...
There are virtual tons of info here, dig in! People are also very nice and gracious with their help, but you should know that what you are asking has been beat to death in threads that have gone to double digit page counts often.

So anyway don't write off your engine yet, if it is drivable get some seat and wrench time. Welcome! I'll leave the next new-owner admonishment for probably the next post after mine.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:00 pm

Might be a good idear to take a look at them fuel hoses, nope?

Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:24 pm

Ethan5150 wrote: We had a mechanic do a pre buyer's inspection in Colorado and he told us everything was in great shape (120psi all cylinders, all systems working well).

Well it turns out, he lied to us - the compression is actually 20, 85, 140 and 125. The head gaskets are leaking

How does the van drive? Does it have adequate power? Does it run nicely? If it's otherwise satisfying then those compression numbers don't mean much. Learn to use the search function on the samba, look for posts by tencentlife re: compression check numbers.

If the van runs well yet you're determined to put in a new engine, you could dump a couple of bottles of subaru coolant conditioner (from the subaru dealer's parts counter) into the cooling system. It's pretty good at stopping leaks. Oh, and change the fuel lines.

If you want a new engine you can have your mechanic put in one of tencent's engines:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=514460

Subaru conversions are cool. They cost a lot more than you're hoping, though. You pay either in cash, or in busted knuckles, lost time, and frustration.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Ethan- you will get a TON of information on here if you use the search feature listed under "forums". The results can be overwhelming on certain subjects, and subaru conversions are no exception (some, like the militant lemur above, would say they've been discussed ad nauseum). Any questions are always welcome and encouraged, but searching first can get you further up the learning curve. good luck.

Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:14 pm

I see that you're in Bellingham, I'm on Bainbridge Island (7 mile ferry ride from Seattle) and I have a Subaru ej25 powered 87 Wolfsburg Vanagon that you're welcome to come check out and drive. There are also two other conversions on the island that I've done that you can check out as well. I've done a total of 9 Subaru conversions and I've trained with Hans from Vanaru over the summer and I'm opening up my own shop in November.

As far as doing the conversion yourself, you can do it for less than we charge if you do the work yourself and have plenty of time, but If you're hiring a professional mechanic @$80/hr who has never done the conversion before, it's going to be expensive. The Subaru won't just "drop right in" and fire up without the proper modifications done.

If you'd like some advice for doing the conversion or a shop to do it for you, let me know.

Take care,
Nolan

Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:39 pm

2.1 DJ 112bhp

making it more driveable.. and keeping it real. :D

Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:27 am

Thanks for everyone's help! I've done quite a bit of reading and realize I need to do a little more investigation before giving up on this engine because yes, it does run pretty well (not great but well) and a leak down test has not been done.

On a related note, does anyone have any thoughts on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...1275wt_939

Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:53 am

I wasn't going to do my swap until a rod went through the block or some other major damage...... but when I removed one leaky head it was so pitted and I was having pretty low oil pressure etc etc etc. I did it my self for about $2k. Lots and Lots of time involved. I think the plumbing and wire harness were a bitch. You have to do alot of R and D to finish it, there is no 100% do it all your self kit. If you can put in less than $1000 to fix the leaks do it and that will buy you time to figure out what conversion you want. you can always sell the WBX after the conversion to recoup some costs.

Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:54 am

YAECT!

Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:53 pm

I went suby, man....never looking back.

with a stock muffler it kinda sounds like a wbx....untill it moves :lol:

I have about $4k in mine.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:19 am

a lot cheaper than a Subie conversion or a Bostig.

Vanagons came with them in other countries. Using diesel Vanagon parts you could probably get one done for $2K by your mechanic. Every VW guy knows how to work on them and parts are really cheap and plentiful. Mine has been super-dependable, gets 23+mpg always and is works better than the WBX motors.

I recently found a replacment for the one I was still running...$300 complete from a 93 Jetta, including all the accessories. You can't start on a WBX repair for that money.

Just saying worth a look.