TheSamba.com :: View topic - Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler)

Wed Apr 30, 2025 10:16 pm

Jason0115 wrote:

My question:
Item #2: When you pull up or push down on the steering wheel, the coupler flexes up and down, moving the wheel/steering rod about a half inch in either direction.

Here is a video of both scenarios:

Skipping to part b… Those flange-head nuts are shiny, but are they true locking nuts? The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber.

Thu May 01, 2025 6:47 am

Wildthings wrote: SGKent wrote: how much smaller are the bug / vanagon ones 111-415-417 / 251-419-417B ?

20 or 30% smaller in diameter.

Thu May 01, 2025 8:30 am

airschooled wrote:
Skipping to part b… Those flange-head nuts are shiny, but are they true locking nuts? The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber.

Nuts: Top Lock Flange Nut DIN 6927 Steel Class 10 Hardened
Bolts: M8 Flange Bolt DIN 6921 Class 10.9 Steel
Washers: Steel, Form A Curved Wave Washer DIN 137A

All from Belmetric

I suppose I should have used thick fender washers for the nuts resting on the rubber instead of the wave washers.

Thu May 01, 2025 2:43 pm

Yes, those are good lock nuts. Personally I try not to use that type of locknut on "STUDS" or bolts that are hard to find because the top distorted thread can damage the thread on a stud depending on how well the locknut is manufactured.

But that is not the case here. The bolts on this joint are readily replaceable and those should be excellent locknuts.

Airschooled said:

Quote: The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber.

I totally agree about castle nuts...especially on items like ball joints and tie rod ends and suspension parts in general. Nothing beats the positivity of a cotter pin or stainless wire through a hole.

But you bring up something else with the "fender washer" comment......

I said this a page back and I meant it.....

raygreenwood said:

Quote: I may be wrong but I doubt it.

That is too many layers of cords with too little rubber in between.

The cords in rubber sheets limit the lateral/radial flex....meaning the twisting force/movement. They also make for higher tear resistant.

But....those cords do not add stiffness in the axial direction. Though the rubber might be the correct durometer....excessive amounts of cord removes rubber volume so it will act like a lower durometer rubber in the axial direction. Ray

I bring your attention to the highlighted sentences. And...this is exactly what we are seeing here.

The radial or twisting strength of this coupler looks great in your video. However, the axial flexability is too high......

.....that is unless you find something loose or wrong in the column itself....

Going back to what Airchooled said that I quoted above.....

Yes....I think fender washers, wider than the flange nut could add axial stiffness to this coupler.

So if that works...think about this for one step better.

Why not make a pair of washer plates. One goes to the steering box yoke bolts and is under the nuts on the steering column side and one goes to the steering column bolts and is on the steering box side and they are 90* perpendicular to each other on opposite sides of the rubber coupler so they do not touch.

Those plates are green in that sketch. You will possibly need four shim washers (in red) to make sure that neither yoke comes in contact with the washer plates passing underneath them.

By the way, this is NOT my design/idea. I have actually seen these exact plates on a rag joint. It was on a car other than a VW but I do not remember if it was American, Japanese, Eurpean or a damn tractor. These would make that coupling nice and stiff in the axial direction.

So....as I noted.....and why I noted this..... after 35 pages of every other coupler on the planet being shit for one reason or another.... or when they are good they turn out to be no longer available....

There are a lot of people piling on and stating.... "Lares is the PROFESSIONALS choice/answer....why look any further?". Because of reasons like this problem and variable availability....so far.

And, I have said it before....in this thread....many pages ago.....no one is testing anything really. Folding a rubber coupler in your hand tests for nothing. Its a comparison saying "this looks similar to that". But what parameter is it REALLY quantifying?

Its kind of like comparing an orange to a pomegranite and saying they are both the same because they are the same diameter.

As I stated, the excessive amount of rag layers in this particular Lares joint will not be conducive to axial stiffness....but WILL make for good radial stiffness (and we saw that in his video). Yes....I have worked with the production of a lot of laminated plastic and rubber products. I saw what I expected.

But....looking at what that joint is good at....if you throw couple of cheap strengthening washer plates on there with a couple of spacers.... it will probably fix it.

Ray

Thu May 01, 2025 4:14 pm

there are a lot of weird old parts floating around some parts of Europe that are still out there. Someone who needs one of the rubber discs might consider contacting these people and asking what they actually have in their inventory. Caveat - photos lie, sellers lie, and "you snooze - you loose" when it comes to old NLA parts if they have a box of the real McCoy. Bob Hood beat me one time to a NOS nla part by 15 minutes - and it was not even advertised by the seller yet. Both of us just had a hunch from some other parts they were selling. took me a year to track down another one, and the guy had two. Tom Dodger has the other one now. So consider contacting these folks.

https://www.beetle.cz/en/obchod/nahradni-dily/dily...zeni-t2-a/

Wed May 07, 2025 10:45 am

I compared Lares with SGF and a new Bus-Ok coupler.

I think the Bus-Ok coupler is closest to original.

I'm not impressed by how much flex the Lares coupler has after two years of use. I've removed mine.

https://thelatebay.com/index.php?threads/lares-vs-sgf-vs-bus-ok-steering-coupler.103041/

Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:19 pm

So, I just threw a new coupler on after about three years of a "Kafer" brand one (at least that's what I can make out on the remains). I ordered one from Bus Depot mostly as a just-in-case spare to keep around because the steering was feeling a bit dubious again, but before leaving on a trip discovered that my "Kafer" coupler was, in fact, torn through on one of the holes and in bad shape otherwise.
Took about an hour and change to throw the new no-name coupler from Bus Depot in and I was on my way. Steering felt better.

Until it was time to parallel park. This thing is about a structurally sound as a melted pile of gummy bears. (see action photo below). I informed Bus Depot and they credited me back 10 of the 13 dollars (minus shipping) that I had spent, and I was told that it would be run up the ladder that the part they're selling is unsafe and they should seek another vendor.

Long story short, where are people getting these "Lares" or "Ok-Bus" couplers here in the states? I'm in Massachusetts.

Action photo with the brand new coupler (with my 7 year old daughter pulling on the steering wheel):

Also, failed Kafer coupler:

[/img]

Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:48 pm

these are expensive but cry once pay later. Maybe given a short while one of us can find something good.

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/shop.lasso?pquery=211415417

or roll the dice at Rock Auto for an IAP one at $9

Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:06 pm

Lares is back in stock at RockAuto for double the price of my Dunkin order.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11541629

Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:40 am

SGKent wrote: these are expensive but cry once pay later. Maybe given a short while one of us can find something good.

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/shop.lasso?pquery=211415417

or roll the dice at Rock Auto for an IAP one at $9

wowzers 160 bucks! i guess if you have the only one left you can name your price...

Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:42 am

airschooled wrote: Lares is back in stock at RockAuto for double the price of my Dunkin order.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11541629

Sweet, thank you for the link.

As much as OG is the way to go, I think I'll go with the Lares one at $23 instead of $160 for the old original one... I don't know how I feel about 50 year old rubber, even if it was better quality to start with.