TheSamba.com :: View topic - How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:17 am

zehbeh wrote: The driveshafts might be too short, due to the angle, they need for that height. I have spacers between the flanges and CV joints.

I think it depends on the parts used in the conversion - your A-arms look like bug ones.

The Creative Engineering conversion requires the use of early bay A-arms, hubs and driveshafts (476mm long) but I found they were actually a bit long on a lowered bus. when I dismantled them to fit the long travel CVs, I could see that the ends of the axle had been hitting the flanges on both the gearbox and the wheel hub, enough to damage the gearbox flange seal and allow the CV joints to fill with gearbox oil! Other people have had this issue - here's a thread about it here: https://ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=102383

By increasing the angle of the driveshafts they are effectively made slightly shorter which hopefully solves that issue.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:47 am

Thanks zehbeh! It will be a pricy rise I can tell.. Is there any chance that I will get some top speed with the original RGB tranny with my dual port 1600, 50 hp engine?

Will be a much cheaper rise just to put in the stock tranny.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:56 am

Eastside78 wrote: Is there any chance that I will get some top speed with the original RGB tranny with my dual port 1600, 50 hp engine?

Depends on your requirements? And what do you call top speed? 100km/h?
A friend is driving that setup (RGB+1600DP) with some big 195 R80 tires and is absolutely satisfied with it

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:56 am

mark-s wrote: zehbeh wrote: The driveshafts might be too short, due to the angle, they need for that height. I have spacers between the flanges and CV joints.

I think it depends on the parts used in the conversion - your A-arms look like bug ones.

The Creative Engineering conversion requires the use of early bay A-arms, hubs and driveshafts (476mm long) but I found they were actually a bit long on a lowered bus. when I dismantled them to fit the long travel CVs, I could see that the ends of the axle had been hitting the flanges on both the gearbox and the wheel hub, enough to damage the gearbox flange seal and allow the CV joints to fill with gearbox oil! Other people have had this issue - here's a thread about it here: https://ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=102383

By increasing the angle of the driveshafts they are effectively made slightly shorter which hopefully solves that issue.

I have drive shafts from the same early bay that donated the hubs from. Also a bit tight to fit for my lowered bus, bus I don't have the problem you had.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:08 am

zehbeh wrote: Eastside78 wrote: Is there any chance that I will get some top speed with the original RGB tranny with my dual port 1600, 50 hp engine?

Depends on your requirements? And what do you call top speed? 100km/h?
A friend is driving that setup (RGB+1600DP) with some big 195 R80 tires and is absolutely satisfied with it

I would be more than happy with 80 km/h at a not to high rpm. (100 sounds scary in a bus..)

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:11 am

Eastside78 wrote: zehbeh wrote: Eastside78 wrote: Is there any chance that I will get some top speed with the original RGB tranny with my dual port 1600, 50 hp engine?

Depends on your requirements? And what do you call top speed? 100km/h?
A friend is driving that setup (RGB+1600DP) with some big 195 R80 tires and is absolutely satisfied with it

I would be more than happy with 80 km/h at a not to high rpm. (100 sounds scary in a bus..)

80km/h with RGB and 1600 DP sounds realistic to me.
The friend, i was talking about has the later gearbox with higher ratio then the earlier busses.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:10 am

Eastside78 wrote:
I would be more than happy with 80 km/h at a not to high rpm. (100 sounds scary in a bus..)

I get that easy on small nut with a 36hp okrasa.

Your plates are from tarragona?

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:10 am

Eastside78 wrote: zehbeh wrote: Eastside78 wrote: Is there any chance that I will get some top speed with the original RGB tranny with my dual port 1600, 50 hp engine?

Depends on your requirements? And what do you call top speed? 100km/h?
A friend is driving that setup (RGB+1600DP) with some big 195 R80 tires and is absolutely satisfied with it

I would be more than happy with 80 km/h at a not to high rpm. (100 sounds scary in a bus..)

If you are using the split case tranny with little nut boxes, yes 80kmh is easy. I drive my 53 bus at 75- 80 kph with a 36hp

I think the red line at 75kph is at 3300 rpms. That is for the split case gearing. But a 1600 is happy to rev higher than a 36hp.

Check the Aug 1966 owners manual for what VW says top speed is with a brand new (stock) 1 ton bus - 105kph. This is not scary, if your steering and brakes are in order.

more owners manuals here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type2.php

Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:15 am

We went with big nut freeway flier transaxle with 3.875 R&P and .82 fourth to get 60
MPH (96 KM) @ 3,000 RPM. Now have well over 150,000 miles (241401 KM) since last rebuild of the 1641 cc single port engine in our 1960 walk thru panel camper conversion.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:13 am

Good news guys, then there will be tranny with RGB :)
Is there big difference in gear ratio (top speed) with a large nut vs small nut trans? I had one of each, but I think I sold one back in 2016, don't remember what kind I kept.

@Perello: Plates are from Norway.

Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:57 am

Eastside78 wrote: Good news guys, then there will be tranny with RGB :)
Is there big difference in gear ratio (top speed) with a large nut vs small nut trans? I had one of each, but I think I sold one back in 2016, don't remember what kind I kept.

@Perello: Plates are from Norway.

For the 1960-63 stock transaxle it was 47 MPH (75 KM) @ 3,000 RPM. Think that the same gearing with large RGB would be about 5 MPH faster (8 KM). Which ever stock gearing was, by now the transaxles that are out there have been rebuilt once or twice. That means it could have any gearing in it.

Case in point the transaxle that came with out 1960 panel had a fourth gear that topped out at 35 MPH (56 KM) @3,000 RPM!!!

Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:50 am

Eastside78 wrote: Good news guys, then there will be tranny with RGB :)
Is there big difference in gear ratio (top speed) with a large nut vs small nut trans? I had one of each, but I think I sold one back in 2016, don't remember what kind I kept.

Official word on RGB's:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263188&highlight=rgb

Yes, there is different gearing possible inside a tranny.

Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:38 pm

What is the front torsion arm angle without a load?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:56 pm

Im sure this has been beaten to death but I am having a huge problem. I have a 58 that was lowered, now being brought back up to stock height. I'm using a large nut trans and 64 spring plates.. this thing was stripped to the bone and im using what I had to get it going. I am running into a problem setting up my plates. At 0 degrees on the frame, I set the unloaded plates to 17 degrees originally. With everything together on the ground I had a slightly negative camber, I could barley get the Firestone 6.40's on under the wheel lip, and the bus sat lower in the rear than the front. so I took it all back apart thinking I would go one more notch down. With just the bare spring plate one notch down, it is lower than the torsion housing and if I jack it up under the plate, it starts to raise the bus just when it clears the torsion housing casting and is under tremendous pressure. How is this possible? I cant get between these two settings.

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:43 pm

mangobus wrote: Im sure this has been beaten to death but I am having a huge problem. I have a 58 that was lowered, now being brought back up to stock height. I'm using a large nut trans and 64 spring plates.. this thing was stripped to the bone and im using what I had to get it going. I am running into a problem setting up my plates. At 0 degrees on the frame, I set the unloaded plates to 17 degrees originally. With everything together on the ground I had a slightly negative camber, I could barley get the Firestone 6.40's on under the wheel lip, and the bus sat lower in the rear than the front. so I took it all back apart thinking I would go one more notch down. With just the bare spring plate one notch down, it is lower than the torsion housing and if I jack it up under the plate, it starts to raise the bus just when it clears the torsion housing casting and is under tremendous pressure. How is this possible? I cant get between these two settings.

You need to use a combination of inner and outer spline changes. One outer spline in one direction and one inner spline in the opposite direction, makes for about 3/16" change in ride height.

When you have it right, you should just barely have to pry (or jack) the bottom of the springplate onto the lower stop to make it all come together.

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:51 am

I could almost swear I did that.... But good to know I WILL be trying this tonight!! Are all spring plates the same through the years?? I am using 64 spring plates , could the spline area be clocked differently??

Thank YOU for the quick response....
Rick

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:39 am

mangobus wrote: Are all spring plates the same through the years?? I am using 64 spring plates , could the spline area be clocked differently??

'56-'67 Spring plates are all the same. I suppose the splines could be clocked differently.

I've never had any luck with that angle finding stuff on a stock or lowered Bus.

With the Bus on the ground and engine installed, measure from the ground at the axles (pivot point) to some common point front/back on the Bus like the drip rail. Lets say your ass end is 2" lower that what you want....

Now jack the Bus up, unbolt the RGB and pull it back. With no weight on the spring late (and not resting on the stop). Measure how far the end of the spring plate is from the ground. Now adjust inner/outer splines until the end of the spring plate is 2" lower than when you started. Bolt it all back up and you should be level now.

I setup all my Buses with 1" of rake empty. Buses lend themselves to hauling a lot of crap or people. That 1" helps keep from having a droopy butt when loaded down. Not as big a deal though on a stock height Bus.

Disclaimer: All torsion bars need some time to settle. Time = actually out driving on the road. Weight affects ride height too, so setting suspension with an empty Bus (or no engine) will cause you to make another adjustment.

If you run into trouble, feel free to give me a call. Contact info on the website.

Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:04 am

^^^ 100% correct.

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:10 pm

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes.

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:32 pm

My split bus has a straight axle conversion but I want to raise it and keep the Bug trans as its super smooth shifting and nice on the motorway. It will have ridiculous positive camber if I raise it so can I convert my bug trans to IRS which would solve the camber issues. IRS trans are stupid money here, about 3k for a good one and finding a RGB trans would be like finding a rocking horse turd . It has flipped spindles on the front t which will be easy to put back to stock.