TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:09 pm

Taco plate is drilled and tapped with a nut on the back side of sender, should be secure enough. should gasgacinch or aviation sealant be used on the threads. worried about oil seepage

Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:19 pm

Oil temp messured there means squat!!!, you want the oil temp of the internals (oil friction in the pressure circuit) not the sump temp.

Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:09 pm

1st off, not the answer to the question. OP may not have the opportunity to switch location. I would use pematex aviation. I know someone in the desert that may argue the location as correct or not. I have mine in the T-3 filler tube port.(universal case)

Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:13 pm

1st off, not the answer to the question. OP may not have the opportunity to switch location. I would use pematex aviation. I know someone in the desert that may argue the location as correct or not. I have mine in the T-3 filler tube port.(universal case)

Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:49 pm

babysnakes wrote: I know someone in the desert that may argue the location as correct or not.
:lol: So what do you really have, Type I, type 2, type 3, or type 4? :lol:
It works the same whether in FL or AZ. No matter where you put it, it's only for trending your engine temp. It will show you if it's running hot or cold or somewhere in between. And it'll show you if it's running normal or not. You'll have to get used to watching it and see what it is telling you. The numbers might not really tell you the whole story.
Permatex Aviation would be good. But the threads are on the inside. Your leak would be on the outside. It's the copper washer under the head of the sender that probably needs sealing.

Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:09 pm

Locktite Red for me on the threads. No leakage. That is the place you want it.

Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:25 pm

Loctite red is the high strength, supposed to be non removable? Wouldn't blue be better?

I've used teflon, but mine has pipe thread.

Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:30 pm

Blue, red or teflon all work. No issues.

Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:38 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: Locktite Red for me on the threads. No leakage. That is the place you want it.

just my two cents here but,

either right after the pump or right after the cooler, those two readings are the ones that can tell you something, cause your actually mesuring the heat transfering in oil that actually moves (and with a lot of friction for that matter). the oil in the sump just stays as a reservoir for the pump to suck and gets cooled by the case area wich is cooled on the underside. the fact that places to mount are more or less easy to fit has nothing to do as to where you need to know how hot is the oil...on a type one you wan´t it to be on the oil cooler mount on the outlet port, to keep track of how well the cooler is doing and how hot is the oil goin to the bearings, (if you install one before and one after you will know how much heat the cooler gets off) that or right after the pump where the heat starts to arise cause presure is being buildt, both will be somehow sensitive to RPM increase/decrease, (you really really wan´t to know this) the sump mesuring will not.

on any water cooled have you ever seen a temp sensor installed in the expansion tank????? either right after the water exits the head or right after the waters exits the radiator usually this last one helps controll electronic thermostats while the one in the head sends both the needle reading and the value the ECU gets for engine temp.

you won´t find this out untill you actually do it and compare your readings to the ones you where having in the sump, it will crack your head to find out oil gets a lot hotter than what you where thinking

Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:28 pm

The total quantity of oil circulates every few seconds at road speed. It's not as if oil is cold at one end of the puddle and a few inches away it is hot. Granted, comming out of the cooler it is a bit cooler. But the bottom line concern is what the overall temperature of the engine is as it is being lubricated and cooled by the oil. Like mentioned before the concern and goal is being able to trend the engine temp. Any issues with cooling, engine performance, ambient conditions or driving manners shows up. That's our only concern. No problem with the sump plate location.

Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:57 am

Another thing to consider, is that 99% of people with Type 4s and oil temp gauges mount their sender in that same location. If you mount it somewhere else then you can't compare your numbers with other people to tell if your numbers are unusual or not.

It's true that there is some air cooling of the case going on there. I have seen, for example, that in a long highway run I might see, say, 210 degrees while moving. Then I pull off to the side and the temp will go up to 220 pretty quickly. That's no doubt because the oil was already that hot but the sender was being cooled by the airflow when I was moving. Anyway you just take that into consideration and look at the big picture. I think the temps will be within +/- 10 degrees of "true" anyway since the conduction oil --> sender is much greater than the conduction sender --> air.

Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:36 am

Yep, location does make a difference but trending and being able to compare to others is really all that matters, it was good enough for Porsche.

I've been experimenting with sender locations on my 71 (1600) a couple of years now and the sump plate shows 30 degrees lower than the pickup tube while on the road and 20 lower sitting in traffic, airflow and oil flow both play a part. There's not a huge amount of movement under the screen in a type 1 and likely not that much more in the bottom of the breather tower/cam gear area on a type 4 (taco plate area) so you'll get a reading that's skewed lower and lags behind actual temps due to airflow over the plate and lack of circulation but whatta ya do without some major machine work to the case?
Everyones in the same boat.

Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:13 am

One of my winter 'to do' jobs is fitting a VDO oil pressure gauge, voltmeter and tach, all 52mm in size, in a mounting plate for 3 gauges. I decided against fitting oil temp, basically as the hotter the oil gets, the lower the pressure and vice versa, so a suitbale pressure gauge can tell you a lot about your engine.

However, I did research the oil temp gauge when deciding what aftermarket instrumentation I was going to go for (keeping it minimal at 3 gauges), and if I was going to fit one, I would follow what Ratwell has written here:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VDOGauges.html#ot

That's including sourcing the relevant 914 parts, including the air deflector to help stop external air cooling the taco plate and leading to your sender transmitting erroneous readings to the gauge.

Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:00 pm

Thanks guys

Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:47 pm

Quick question about the taco plate location - I drilled in a taco plate and installed the sender, took my plate off and when I went to install the one with the temp sender, the nut hit the lip. I put the nut as close as possible to the center bump in the plate while still allowing sealing.
I can reverse the plate 180 degrees, but there is an oil passage towards the front of the engine that the nut would be in front of (its a big nut, the only one I found locally was quite big).
Should I grind down the nut so I can install it on the rearmost side of the engine?
Will having a big nut in front of that oil passage on the front side cause problems? It won't block it entirely (obviously) but I don't want to mount it there if it will restrict something that shouldn't be restricted.

Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:04 pm

I bought mine from Scott already done and it worked well, and used a little teflon sealant (not tape) on it.

Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:06 pm

SG - Do you have the sender installed closer to the front of the engine or closer to the rear?

Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:11 pm

504 wrote: SG - Do you have the sender installed closer to the front of the engine or closer to the rear?

this is the best I can give you right now

ignore red arrow.

Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:13 pm

Thanks. That answers my question. I was just hesitant when I took my plate off and saw that the nut I was putting up there was going to be right in front of that oil passage. I guess it does not matter here.

Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:12 am

Back in The Day, I , also, mounted my sender in that exact location. It worked well. I believe it will cool a bit while driving, but for trending purposes it works well and is an easy install.
The oil sump must be a common location for temp senders, as I have installed one in place of the drain plug on my BMW. The make a sender to replace said drain plug,- someone must think that is a good location, and, yes, the Bimmer runs kind of high if I watch while driving vs. sitting in traffic.
Probably not a good motoring addition for anal retentive type A drivers as you never keep your eyes on the road..... :roll: