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Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:01 pm

I've done a search on this and couldn't find anything. There is probably a reason but I thought I'd ask anyway. I have a 76 Westy. A buddy of mine bought an aftermarket heater for his jeep but has decided not to use it. So, I had a wild thought. Instead of running coolant through the core, could I run oil through the core?

My plan is to mount it under the rear seat to heat the rest of the cabin. Use the existing hole for the air hose to route the inlet and outlet oil lines to the unit. Then cut two holes for the vents and run the switch to the front. The actual controls would need to be in the back with unit. I figured having extra oil in the system wouldn't hurt either.

Has anyone ever tried this before or is this just another one of my "sounded good at the time" ideas?

Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:23 pm

aparrothead wrote: Has anyone ever tried this before or is this just another one of my "sounded good at the time" ideas?
Many have proposed it but strangely nobody ever comes back and say it even sorta worked :wink:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=419955&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=258281&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=330680&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=277424&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=274995&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209500&highlight=oil+heater
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85371&highlight=oil+heater
Consider also that Jeeps cooling system operates at 15 lbs max.

Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:32 pm

Interesting, everyone is tryng to use a remote oil cooler for a heater core. I'm actually trying to use a heater core for a heater core. It looks like I might have to give this a try. I hate to pass up free stuff.

Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:43 pm

I don't think it would for two reasons. Oil viscosity and oil pressure.

IIRC cooling systems only need to be able to withstand something like 16PSI. Oil may be pushed far harder than that.

Also the oil which is usually a little thicker than water is being forced through thin galleries designed for water, whereas oil coolers usually use fewer thick galleries.
I have been watching similar discussions on AVD for ages. There really is no solution.

As people have said if you follow the instructions floating around on here somewhere to leak proof, insulate and recondition your heating, plus insulate your bus you have a fighting chance.

Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:53 pm

There have been radiators/heater cores used in other [smaller cabin volume] VWs. I, too, have never heard of any resounding successes.

Now, you need to think why the brilliant, German engineers didn't think of this. Or Porsche himself...he was a genius, you know.

Assuming we're working with a stock or close to stock engine with all cooling tin attached and functioning. Now, if you are driving in the winter the engine typically will be working in a cooler environment and thus won't always have its cooling air flowing 100% over the engine. It needs to run at an operating temp and it is 100*F higher than what we humans are comfortable with. If you now take the oil and cool it down by blowing air over it to heat the cabin, you are now trying to drop the operating temperature of the engine (from its point of view). So when you need the heat most, so does your engine! Running with an over-cooled engine will result, minimally, in increased wear and fuel consumption.

I don't remember how the oil feed is regulated but you certainly need a quick way to turn it on/off...especially in summer. You will need to wire up a fan to blow through the radiator. You will also need to increase your oil capacity to account for the "heating loop". Always. Plus drain it for oil changes. And heaven help you if you get a leak! :shock:

Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:07 pm

http://www.aircooledvwaddiction.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24

http://www.vwheaters.com/

Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:06 pm

SGKent wrote: vwheaters.com/

No.

Whole lotta new failure points.

Lousy Delta T (water coolant has volume capacity that this rinky dinky thing can't match, air heat has exhaust pipes in the 400-600*+ which is an excellent Delta T)

Colin
(factory heat on my '78 has a nice warm little breeze at the defroster registers with the blower on at stoplights)

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:07 am

You are going to be in the serious overcooling mode if you fit this system. If you are determined to do it , then you need to insulate the block top and bottom so little heat is lost to the elements. Build a shield to cover the bottom of the engine so no air flow can touch it and then lay some kind of insulation on top, making sure it can't get sucked into the fan.

Let us know how it works, no one else has owned up to actually doing so that I can remember.

Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:08 am

Gentleman can I have your attention. The oil heater does work. My wagon currently has this installed because heater boxes don't flow very well. The key I get an oil cooler that is able to flow a lot of volume. Keep mind that water heater cores have large inner diameter hoses and cores. 1/2" - 3/4". Using 3/8" id. oil coolers will not flow enough hot oil. I'm using a hydraulic oil cooler from a press. It's only a 4 pass. My system incorporates an oil cooler bypass plate with 3 quarter inch reinforced stainless braided hose. Remember this oil is hot. Route these lines into the cab to the oil cooler mounted to a fan. Now the problems creating enough hot oil. Driving in town takes a while to get the oil to 200 degrees or so. You won't get warm if you're making a quick trip to the store. But if you are on the highway, 250 degree oil can easily be made. Especially with a set of 40mm Dellorto's passing people at 70. THIS SYSTEM WORKS KILLER. Summertime driving requires a oil rerouting switch that I made so I can use the stock oil cooler in the engine without having to pump hot air into an already blistering cab. But you know the best option hands down....... Gas Heater!!!!

Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:14 am

on the highway I can cook anything inside the bus with the standard heat. Explain why I need more on the highway.

Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:23 pm

Quote: http://www.vwheaters.com/

The middle one is junk. BUS HEATER BOOSTER KIT. Don't waste your money or your time. It's a marine bilge blower and not intended for the hot air that heater boxes produce. How do I know? We bought one from them and the fan didn't even last through our short 3 month winter before it fried. All it does is push more air flow. Fix your existing system leaks instead.

The bottom one is worse. AUXILIARY HEATER SYSTEM. It probably adds heat to the cab but at the expense of destroying your engine. For the heat part the only thing you can control is the fan. But you can't control the hot oil to the coils. The real problem is that you have to remove and trash the stock engine cooler to hook this up. So your engine will receive very little cooling once the weather warms up a bit. Result- Fried engine.

Quote: http://www.vwheaters.com/ Nothing there but bad news.

Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:18 pm

notorious KGB wrote: Gentleman can I have your attention. The oil heater does work. !
Interesting, what oil temps does your engine run when this system is in use?

Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:49 pm

I'm using a VDO electronic sender and gauge. Driving in town of short trips it will get about 180 degrees or so. Long drives my 75 beetle will hold around 200 - 230 degrees at 55 - 60 MPH. If I was to goose it and hold it there for a few minutes or so, she'll climb to 250 - 300 degrees. :D

Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:56 pm

notorious KGB wrote: I'm using a VDO electronic sender and gauge. Driving in town of short trips it will get about 180 degrees or so. Long drives my 75 beetle will hold around 200 - 230 degrees at 55 - 60 MPH. If I was to goose it and hold it there for a few minutes or so, she'll climb to 250 - 300 degrees. :D

Are these oil temps at 20° ambient with the heater working?

If you are seeing oil temperatures of 250°F or above at any ambient you either have a defective gauge or some kind of bad engine problem. Oil especially dino isn't going to last long above 250°F.

Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:53 am

notorious KGB wrote: I'm using a VDO electronic sender and gauge. Driving in town of short trips it will get about 180 degrees or so. Long drives my 75 beetle will hold around 200 - 230 degrees at 55 - 60 MPH. If I was to goose it and hold it there for a few minutes or so, she'll climb to 250 - 300 degrees. :D

wow - it heats your engine oil too. We took out 1977 bus out at FWY speed last week for the Niello run. about 70F outside and we did 65 MPH coming home. Oil registered 180F all the way.

Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Those temps are very hot. The hottest I've ever seen my oil was 230 degrees running fully loaded 65 mph into a 20mph headwind with outside temp of 95 degrees. With stuff strapped to the roof and 2 bicycles hanging off the back. I have a very accurate (not VDO) sender.

In the winter, when I would actually need heat, my oil temp usually hovers around 160-170.

I'm glad to hear the oil heat mod is working for someone, first report I've heard, but I'm worried about the health of the engine...

Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:14 pm

When I need heat I'll turn the fan on as soon as 150 degrees. I have a variable speed controller so I start off with low speed. If I'm running 200 or so the fan is on always. Usually mid to high speed. Electronic fan switches are available on the market for use with a remote oil cooler that activate at 180 degrees .Ok. As for the gauge and sender topic, I got the gauge from a friend without the sender. I bought the sender from NAPA. I asked those guys if the sender was for the type of gauge I had. They said yes. The sender is mounted using a Berg full flow oil pump plate. That gave me the needed threaded orifice. Could that be an incorrect location to put a sending unit? So your point about a faulty reading could be possible. I'll look into that. You all have a point and I agree. I get nervous as the temp reaches above 200. Upon reading some articles that Hot VW wrote, typical engine oil temps are 250-300. Adding an extra oil cooler can drop the temp down to 200. With that, I assume the reading is normal and a heater using the oil cooler came to mind. Upon the knowledge you guys have, can we agree that dual 40mm carburators can build more heat than a single 34 pict?

Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Quote: Upon the knowledge you guys have, can we agree that dual 40mm carburators can build more heat than a single 34 pict?

at idle or 6500 RPM? They are the same in the morning when the car sits overnight. In fact, if you have the duals jetted rich or lean enough they may even be cooler than the stock carb at freeway speeds.

Could you build a motor with them that would glow orange briefly, probably. Could you build a motor with a 34-pict-3 that would glow orange - probably not.

Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:54 pm

notorious KGB wrote: I bought the sender from NAPA. I asked those guys if the sender was for the type of gauge I had. They said yes.
Trusting someone behind the counter at a chain auto parts store is dangerous, you should test it in boiling water to confirm the readings.
Quote: Upon reading some articles that Hot VW wrote, typical engine oil temps are 250-300.
Maybe on those chromey GEX engines they say are so great but not on a real engine :shock: Remember they are there to sell ads and sometimes that requires supporting your advertisers hyperbole.

Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:49 am

busdaddy wrote: notorious KGB wrote: I bought the sender from NAPA. I asked those guys if the sender was for the type of gauge I had. They said yes.
Trusting someone behind the counter at a chain auto parts store is dangerous, you should test it in boiling water to confirm the readings.

I agree! Don't trust FLAPS!