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Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:43 am

I would remove the reflectors on the bumper. It looks like they might obscure the tail lights from certain angles, not good for cell talking drivers behind your car. If you are really concerned about people seeing your car/lights you might consider getting a pair of OG VW back up lights with red lenses, attach them to the same bumper bolts (keep them as close to the top of the fender as you can) and wire them to the rear lights. Maybe you could run some red led strips around the license plate and rear windows too! :shock: After seeing what happened to Manny's 58 Coram Rug Works bus more light might help.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:50 am

EverettB wrote: I guess you want opinions?

I'd remove them all, even if I was driving around with huge holes in the fenders.

X2

Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:37 pm

johnshenry wrote: Yeah, but the ones on the fenders have provenance too. I like some of the "modified" European splits that are still basically original, but have part on them that people put on them long ago to meet local regulations and be able to keep driving them. Good history there...

X2 The ones on the bumper as mentioned are just too big... they annoy the eye rather than attract it... the old skool reflectors and lights have that "grandpa" factor which I like...... (I run a old Yankee STOP light). But add the bumper ones on and it gets overwhelming. Ive always liked the looks of your extra lights/reflectors..... as John said it gives the car a look of euro-originality and provenance.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Those big reflectors and repro brackets should go right into the garbage
As for the hippie rug. That woman of yours has great decorating skills.

Dave

Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:57 pm

Less is more perhaps.

Seems you are trying to make the best out of what those those traffic safety laws did to your poor fenders during the day.

If it were me, I'd punt this idea of preserving the car's so-called euro-originality and provenance, as the car didn't leave the factory that way, nor was the car even originally first registered that way.

Instead I'd return the car to its original spec, remove the bodgery, and fill the holes and blend in. Come next spring you'll forget all about what someone once did to this car in the name of "safety". Besides, all you would be doing is adding to the cars' so-called provenance for someone else 30-40 years from now, only the car will look 10x better.

That said, driving on the roads today you do have to recognize that when a split is braking very few people will know that from behind, which is why I added the set of Bosch period brake lights to my bumper, and all I ever got were compliments on how nice they looked on the car:

I'd suggest mocking up a bit, take off the reflectors and beehive brake lights, and attach the beehives to the bumper mount brackets, stand back and see how that would look once the fenders were reworked. Brake lights at least are going to contribute alot further to retaining the car's provenance over time, only I think they will look 10x nicer that way than on the fender.

Good luck in your decision.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:50 pm

Brezelwerks wrote: That said, driving on the roads today you do have to recognize that when a split is braking very few people will know that from behind, which is why I added the set of Bosch period brake lights to my bumper, and all I ever got were compliments on how nice they looked on the car:

Those brake lights looks really sweet on your car :D

In Sweden all pre 62 Beetles had to fit reflectors (mostly mounted on the bumper brackets - or by using 1" wide reflecting red tape on the bumper) due to the actual area on the original glass lenses concidered being too tiny. Between 56-61 that issue could also be solved by exchanging the snowflake glass lense with a plastic lense that had somewhat more reflection to it.

(Edit: Swedish barn find '57 oval with period refelctors)

Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:49 pm

If talking traffic safety, I have had a thought of mounting bright brake-lights and direction indicators behind the cooling intake under the rear window. That way they stay as hidden as possible.

I agree that it is a problem what to preserve. If doing a total resto of the car, which does not seem needed in this case, I'd say junk the extra lights and reflectors. In this case, I'd say stick with what was mounted as that is a nice historical touch - especeially if more "belgian specific" things are present.

That said, on my oval, I replaced the rear lights to stock units with glass snowflakes and removed front fender mounted direction indicators - without doing something else to the car - it still has the original paint, interior and so on. But now I'm leaning to at least put back the fender mounted indicators AND also reactivate direction indicators in rear snowflakes, as my car must have had that setup before the rear lights were exchanged as it has the euro 1960-61 only direction switch, in US I think this switch was introduced 1956 when semaphores dissappeared?

But all of the above is a matter of if the rest of the car has it's "history" preserved but mostly the owners taste...

Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:33 pm

I love the license plate, and the oil-drip catch boot mat. But this is about reflectors, so IMO the big ones on the bumper have to go. If there is a serious need to reflectorize, why not <shudder> run reflective red tape in the bumper groove?

Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:05 pm

piet&som wrote: KäferKrieger wrote: Watchout for tailgaters mesmerized by so many red spots... and hope they notice your indicators among the clutter.
My vote is to 86 the bumper mounted set, they look kinda plastic

I agree because those were never put on a bumper in Belgium.
The other ones I recognize easily.
Peter

wow, any details on when and where this photo was taken?

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:03 pm

whatev gets the apron home .

Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:15 am

@P Horvath : in my memory, this picture was taken on a meeting in the vicinity of Charleroi Belgium about 15 - 20 years ago.
This was a real all original beauty you stumble upon once in a while.
Unfortunetly I've never seen that split again.
(BTW I just knew you were gonna say that!)
Regards, Peter

Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:33 am

very cool peter. any more photos?
i bought the car back around 2001 from xavier mente and sold it a few years later.
i saw it again in 2004 at the classic in ca. the new owner just sold it back to me in 2010.
it is in the same condition as in your photos except for a new muffler and new tires.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:41 am

Brezelwerks wrote: Less is more perhaps.

Seems you are trying to make the best out of what those those traffic safety laws did to your poor fenders during the day.

If it were me, I'd punt this idea of preserving the car's so-called euro-originality and provenance, as the car didn't leave the factory that way, nor was the car even originally first registered that way.

Instead I'd return the car to its original spec, remove the bodgery, and fill the holes and blend in. Come next spring you'll forget all about what someone once did to this car in the name of "safety". Besides, all you would be doing is adding to the cars' so-called provenance for someone else 30-40 years from now, only the car will look 10x better.

That said, driving on the roads today you do have to recognize that when a split is braking very few people will know that from behind, which is why I added the set of Bosch period brake lights to my bumper, and all I ever got were compliments on how nice they looked on the car:

I'd suggest mocking up a bit, take off the reflectors and beehive brake lights, and attach the beehives to the bumper mount brackets, stand back and see how that would look once the fenders were reworked. Brake lights at least are going to contribute alot further to retaining the car's provenance over time, only I think they will look 10x nicer that way than on the fender.

Good luck in your decision.

gary, as we discussed before i think losing the stuff on the fenders and blending is the way to go. i also like the idea of putting the beehives on the brezelwerks brackets for extra brake lights. maybe you could talk to your body guy in mass. and see what he thinks. thanks, paul.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:33 am

Paul, I wrestled with a similar situation on my old azure belgian 52, later owned by Kev.

It was a beautiful original car, the original owners had replaced the split taillights with later model lights. I removed them and there were extra holes left in the fender.

I found a painter who was an expert in blending and making new paint look old and patina'd. He welded the extra holes up, blended the taillight areas with new paint, it turned out really nice and was hard to tell those areas were ever touched up. I think the secret sauce was using a flattening agent in the paint to dumb down the sheen.

We did the same thing on the front fenders which had blinkers mounted on the top. We re-undercoated the underside of the fenders so you couldn't tell they were ever worked on.

The car looked 10x better with these changes, it was a good decision and I would do it again.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:17 am

dustin,i think your car and mine have build dates only weeks apart. i never knew you had the fenders welded up and repainted. i will most likely go that route, and use the vintage lights from the fenders as extra brake lights on the bumper brackets.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:56 am

p horvath wrote: dustin,i think your car and mine have build dates only weeks apart. i never knew you had the fenders welded up and repainted. i will most likely go that route, and use the vintage lights from the fenders as extra brake lights on the bumper brackets.

Yah, it was pretty stealthy. Goes to show that when done properly, it's not noticeable. Not cheap but it made the car in my opinon.

It was later restored and is now in the hands of a well-known comedian, but i will always remember it as a great survivor.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:18 am

52brezelfenster wrote: i will always remember it as a great survivor.

X2. I miss that car!

Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:31 am

My car has bulbholders for dual-filament bulbs, so I have combined taillight and brake light in the stock housing. (Plus the popes nose brake light.) It may not be OG, but neither is an extra set of lights on the bumper.

Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:47 pm

Wiggy wrote: EverettB wrote: I guess you want opinions?

I'd remove them all, even if I was driving around with huge holes in the fenders.

X2

X3

Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:09 pm

p horvath wrote: very cool peter. any more photos?
i bought the car back around 2001 from xavier mente and sold it a few years later.
i saw it again in 2004 at the classic in ca. the new owner just sold it back to me in 2010.
it is in the same condition as in your photos except for a new muffler and new tires.

I'm sorry, I don't have more photos, but I can send these two if you like.
Would be a pleasure for me; please pm me!