TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:41 am

euromog wrote: Wow VW could not have come up with a more BORING intro vehicle. Gray paint? Looks like a Eurovan to me. I would want to see the under carriage more than anything else.

What they need to do is build a van body onto the Toureg chassis. It is very capable with long travel suspension and lockers. Oh man a TDI V10 VW van you could actually TOW with!

Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:42 am

euromog wrote: Wow VW could not have come up with a more BORING intro vehicle. Gray paint? Looks like a Eurovan to me. I would want to see the under carriage more than anything else.

What they need to do is build a van body onto the Toureg chassis. It is very capable with long travel suspension and lockers. Oh man a TDI V10 VW van you could actually TOW with!

Personally, I love the paint. It looks rough and purposeful.

Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:54 pm

Well it seems that Volkswagen is responsive to the wants of its customers. The success of the Busman group in lobbying for a new more capable van got me thinking. There are many discussions on this forum about folks in the U.S. wishing that a new van would arive on our shores. Have people brought this up to VW? Under whom should we light our fire, and which cage needs to be rattled to get people to respond and bring the Rockton over here? The Busman delegation had the advantage of being able to walk into VAG.
I was thinking that we might be able to get some discussion going with Volkswagen through their company channels. Through the below URL you enter your vin# etc etc to get them an email. I figured that as owners of VW vans they might put more stock in our requests.

http://web.vw.com/templates/Service?serviceName=customercare

Might just be my wishful 2nd Lt dreaming, but hey I've got a few more months before I go up a pay/cynic grade :D

Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:42 pm

Well as I said ^^^, I might be a dreamer, but I know I'm not the only one. I fired my first shot across the VW America bow. I'm curious to see how they respond. Possibly if more folks write into them we could organize a Busman like delegation to bring up our needs. Below is the note I sent them.

At the end of this year the new Rockton will become available in many markets across Europe. This is due inpart to a delegation of Volkswagen owners bringing their needs to VW. I would like to know what can be done to bring this vehicle here to the United States. For almost ten years VW has had no counter to the successful Ford Transit or Dodge Sprinter. The VW community is clamoring for Transporter models like the Kombi, California, and especially the Rockton to be sold in the U.S. For example heavily used and tired Eurovans are selling for well over $20,000, people would much rather purchase new reliable vehicles from VW, but there is no option for us. I would like to know what is being done to bring these vehicles to the U.S. market.

Very respectfully,
Tyler Jones

Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:48 pm

There have been write-in efforts to VoA in the past on other forums regarding importation of new buses/vans/campers (not specifically Rocktons) with polite responses generally amounting to 'we're working on it'. The general sentiment from VoA is they'd love to have an affordable rig to sell but must defer to decisions at VoG HQ.

The biggest problem for VW are the costs of manufacturing, transportation and importation taxes which doesn't add up to being financially competitive with the US offerances. As someone said, the eurovan was somewhat of a financial dud for VW in the US. Attempts to engage a US company to produce the Routan was also a failure (even before the start in my opinion).

US Sportsmobiles ($$$) seem to come closest to the VW camper along with conversion vans which puts us right back to our own vanagons with upgrades and conversions.

Karl says VW will never ever produce another rear-engined bus/van and in my lifetime that may be true although I wouldn't say never ever (guarded optimism). However, given the large amount of time that has already passed since the last vanagon was produced, his opinion has stronger weight at this point.

But the death of the vanagon and even Japanese 'flat-nose' vans in the US largely had to do with NA safety concerns regarding frontal collisions although I still believe VW could have strengthen that area to meet specs., and along with some modernizations such as the engines and trannies the vanagons, especially the campers, trucks and syncros, could have continued. But I'm not sure it could have stayed affordable unless they had an established assembly plant in the US.

As it is, for VW-specific admirers the best that can be hoped for regarding a new NA rig is a very much wait and see. While I'm sure VoA appreciates domestic input the ultimate decision will come from abroad and be strongly based on financial considerations.

From my perch, VW will feel the need to add all those gadgets and gizmos found on today's SUV's and minivans on any rigs they import to compete and that could be cost-prohibitive as I'm sure they've determined so far. And they will need far more buyers than just all the current VW bus/van owners in NA to make it worthwhile.

Bottom line .... take care of your vanagon. The days of coming to the left coast to pluck another fine specimen is quickly coming to an end. If you're currently engaged in parting out a vanagon, think again unless it's truly shot. With each passing year more vanagons are returning to earth. We have yards in my berg that crush between 3 to 6 vanagons per yer, each. The one closest to me said they crushed 7 this year so far. Do the math.

Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:03 pm

Another huge factor is that in the US, it is about the worst time in modern history to gear up to produce a mini-RV type vehicle. RV manufacturers by the score have declared bankruptcy as their retired or almost retired buyers have watched their retirement funds collapse. That's not going to come back, quite simply.

So, it would be hard for the US VW folks to ask for an offroad capable and/or camping oriented vehicle at the moment.

I like the T5 vehicle they are offering overseas just fine, but it would doubtless need $$$ to certify and test for US sales. Also, it has been pointed out that there is no "answer" to the successful Ford and Dodge entries. It's worth noting that sometimes this indicates that the need for a product of this type has already been met for the US market and that unless you think the market can also absorb your new entry, this news can actually be a negative to bringing in your own model.

DougM

Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:09 pm

VW already has the platform; they already have engines

- they just need to put a camper body on the Tourag, that's all

Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:29 pm

The cheapest current caravelle is $50K. Add 25% import tax, shipping costs, dealer profit margin, sales tax, the conversion and the 4wd system and the idea is out of reach for almost all VW owners. The ones that would get purchased would be so expensive that they would never be used for their built purpose because they would be seen as a investment or oddity.

I would love to see them made available but then I would have to start playing the lottery to be able afford and abuse one. :shock:

Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:04 pm

Westies were spendy new also.

IF VW intor'd a new camper, I'd just wait a few years and then be able to buy a nice 3-10 yr. old 4wd Camper.

Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Accordimg to:

http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/

in today's money I paid ~$60 000 for my '91 Syncro Westy. If I look at it
that way I might go for an $80 000 TDI 4Motion T5 Camper brand new.
That's the price of a reasonnable Sportsmobile or a GoWesty syncro
westy.

Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:58 pm

I have always wanted to see VW re-introduce the Transporter derived vans to the USA market, and early on in the T5's production life I actually guessed that they would. However, at this point I don't think they ever will. A few important considerations to note:

1. The T5 is now a seven year old product. VW typically does a new Transporter every twelve years. Even if they thought there was a market for them, it wouldn't make sense to pay the money to certify it for this market when the product is more than half way through its life cycle.

2. VW learned from the Eurovan that the Transporter had developed into a vehicle that was not suited to the mainstream US van buyer's tastes. It flopped in 1993 when it first came out. In 1993 the Eurovan sold at about half the rate that the Vanagon had in its final two years. At that point it was easy to chalk the sales flop up to the need for a better engine. However, the 1999 re-introduction of the Eurovan proved this wasn't the case. The best arguement came in 2001 when VW lowered the price of the EV by almost $5000 and offered a 24valve version of the VR6 along with ESP and some other nice features. Very few takers, and plenty of insulting press reviews that ignored the superior utility of the van and criticized it for not being as car like as a mini-van - and they thought it was still underpowered.

3. Winnebago didn't continue to build the Rialta off the T5 cab chassis. I always thought that if Winnebago had continued to build motorhomes off this chassis, at least the engine EPA certification could be rationalized. Instead, Winnebago started using the Sprinter platform for these types of RVs.

4. Little to no profit margin due to the expensive Hannover production. They just weren't designed to be priced for this market. If VW were to sell the T5 here, and I think they could since they did it last in 2003 with the Eurovan, it would not be a profit maker. It would be more of a halo vehicle. They would make a lot of VW purists happy, but that's not the purpose of a halo vehicle.

Just some of my thoughts regarding the subject. VW hasn't built a Transporter generation that I'm not a fan of, so I've obviously also longed for one of these new vans here - especially a 4Motion TDI California camper. But I think at this point, the only VW van in our North American future is a Passat based replacement for the Routan built in the new NA plant.

David

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:11 pm

Well, hey, in about 20 years (if the laws don't change) we can import one legally. Now, having fuel for it, that might be another possible challenge.

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:25 pm

westyventures wrote: Well, hey, in about 20 years (if the laws don't change) we can import one legally. Now, having fuel for it, that might be another possible challenge.

That's very true. Hopefully there will still be fuel for it, and hopefully there is still a good supply of them to go around. I have a friend vacationing in Germany right now, and I've asked him to shop for a 1986 model year Golf Syncro to bring back for me but the search is not going very well because there are so few of them left. I was actually startled to see how few T3s there were for sale too compared to just a few years ago. It seems that Germany has an ongoing version of Cash for Clunkers that ends up taking a lot of these vehicles off the road before they are 25 years old.

Thanks for posting the information about the Rockton, Karl. It's cool to see the latest product from VW Nutzfahrzeuge - especially one that offers many of the qualities of the T3 Syncro.

David

Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:44 pm

Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:09 am

As expected, my answer from VoA was in line with much of what has been said here. " We don't have any plans etc etc" So looks like we continue as before, lovingly maintain and improve the T3.

thummmper nice mock up. Got my brain whirring again. I'm not surprised the humvee uses a geared hub. Similar to a portal axel where the half axle comes in over the wheel axle and is geared down, also giving it some monster ground clearace w/o high CV joint angles.

There are H1 geared hubs available for 6K for all four, however they only have a pinion and main gear, reversing the direction of the wheel w.r.t. to half axle rotation. There are some bolt on units that incorporate an idler gear to avoid this.

Our trailing arms are almost begging to have a portal hub bolted to them, can we also bolt one to the front? A bolt on bolt off, huge lifting, driveline torque reducing, mog maker ( Unimogs use portals). Any intrest here? Pros, cons?

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:11 pm

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:46 pm

When one wheel's suspension is compressed, the differential becomes closer to the ground reducing clearance and increasing potential for damage. If VW wants to build a real off roader, it would be 100x better with solid axles and portals. Now that they own MAN, they should team up their development teams for a dual purpose commercial/consumer 4x4 that can win military contracts as well.
JMHO
:-({|=

Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:48 pm

Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:54 pm

As long as some posters on this thread are diverting away from Vanagons I thought a few pictures of other solutions which could/should have inspired the folks at VW.
Sure beats a Routan/Dodge/VW , any day of the long week

Campers ?

Eat mud ?

.

I think it says: "" This vehicles borrows parts from Renault is available with a 75hp diesel engine. The four wheel drive is by transfer case (I guess I would not know what crabotage means, perhaps one of our Gaulois friends can clarify -thanks- :) ) The gearbox with relays is a 16 speed. It can carry (approximately) 3 tons (??)"
That was back in last century

And as long as they were going front wheel drive :2gunfire:
They might as well have used some 1950s technology. Try this on a Vanagon.

... and por favor don't tell me off topic, not anymore than a T5, a Touareg or a Hummer. Thank you very kindly :P

Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:54 am

The underside is sexy but why does it have to look like a damn minivan.

...still wish/hope for this:

[img][/img]