buggin@paarplace.com |
Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:59 pm |
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Anyone know what specs I should use to purchase a battery for a 67 beetle? I know it's 12 volt, but what amperage? |
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keifernet |
Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:07 pm |
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Just get them to look it up at the parts house???
It should be a "group 42" if memory serves me... about 550 or so "cold cranking amps"
You should double check though. |
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Aussiebug |
Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:47 pm |
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Wow Keifer - I have to disagree with you on this one - 550CCA is way overkill for a VW.
There are two measurements of interest in auto batteries.
1. - reserve capacity - this is a measure of how much energy the battery can store - most normal sized auto batteries are in the 50-60 amp/hour range. Theoretically - a 50amp/hour battery could supply 1 amp for 50 hours or 50 amps for one hour before it's voltage fell to the "flat" specification (10.5v from memory).
In general, the amp/hour rating depends on how big the battery is (how much lead and acid it contains).
A 50amp/hour size is just fine for a bug.
2. - the cold cranking amps (CCA). This is a measure of how fast it can deliver it's energy when it's cold (battery performance drops in cold weather). It has a relationship with the number of plates in the battery - they are often called "7 plate", "9 plate" etc. The more plates, the more surface area of active materials faciing each other and the more amps it can deliver.
The bug starter motor (12v) draws about 70 amps when spinning, but needs a lot more than this to get the engine turning, so the "stalled current" for the bug (the initial impulse to get it moving) is about 3 times the running current - about 200+ amps.
The minimum CCA rating recommended for bugs is in fact 220CCA, and so any battery with that number or higher will work just fine. But since high CCA batteries get expensive (and won't necessarily last longer), a 550CCA battery is really unnecessary - a 280-300 CCA battery is plenty. This is enough extra CCA to cope with really cold days. If you live in a warm climate, the 250-280CCA would be just fine too.
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/ |
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keifernet |
Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:00 pm |
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Well I did say,
a: get the place of purchase to look it up.
b. if memory serves me... ( it is a group 42 in the US anyway....)
c: you should double check though...
So I have no problem with your disagreement with my post Rob...( we do that occasionally! LOL!) I may have made an error when I typed in 550... but I looked at the battery I have, purchased specifically for a VW Bug and it is 450 CCA amps... 550 is "reserve"
I would rather have a bit more anyway... as long as it fits under the rear seat and is not too tall so it won't short out on the rear seat springs. |
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keifernet |
Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:14 pm |
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Just for the fun of it, lets all go out and read the labels on top of our battery!
It's close to time to check the fluid level and add a bit of "distilled" water and clean the terminals anyway right?
I went by the parts house and could not find a battery ( car or light truck) that has less than 400 CCA... and while I'm sure that Rob is right in saying 300 is plenty, where the hell would you find one? I mean is 39.99 too much? for the cheapo or 79.99 for the mega warranty? ;)
Also just for kicks what brands have been the best for you in the past?
Contenintal used to get a good revue, then Interstate...
Now we have Neverstart (Everstart), Dunntlast (Duralast) Chumpion ( Champion)
And of course DiedHard... US specs of course! |
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rizzag |
Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:27 pm |
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yo aussiebug, do you have a problem with keifer? it seems like lately you just go around disagreeing with everything he says? it must make you feel good or something?
220cca??? i have never in my life seen a car battery with that low of cold cranking amps.
shit, im my bus i have a 1000 cca optima gel cell. your right aussie, that the higher cca may not last longer(years) but i dont want a battery that will be dead if i leave my headlights on for a half hour or play some tunes while i have my car off. in my cars i always get high end batteries just for the peice of mind and the good warranty. |
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Aussiebug |
Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:50 pm |
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Hi Rizzag,
No I don't "feel good" diagreeing with anyone, but if I feel a point needs to be made - I'll make it. And if you or Keifer or anyone else find fault with my posts - please make your own point too - that's how we all learn more (I'm still learning after 35 years of driving VWs).
Re the 1000cca and using the battery with the engine off... I'm going to have to disagree with YOU on that point - the two are not connected. It's the reserve capacity (amp-hour rating) which matters when using the battery with the engine off - that's "how long can it deliver power before going flat". As I said in my last - CCA relates to how fast it can release power - how many amps can it deliver to the starter for the few seconds it's needed (unless your stereo pulls say 200+ amps - then CCA might be a factor!).
The small CCA rating batteries are very common here in Aus and if you look on the battery charts (Dunlop, Exide etc) all specify 220CCA as the minimum for the VW. Mostly they are called "7 plate" batteries here, and sell for about $40 Aus. The "9 plate" versions at around 280-300CCA are better.
Even smaller CCA ratings and amp-hour ratings are used in some Japanese cars - some of those batteries look like they belong in a motobikes!
A search of www.exideworld.com (US site) does indeed show the battery as type 42 with a CCA rating of 365 - maybe that's the minimum size that Exide (for example) make in that case size these days.
And Keifer - just for kicks I looked at my battery - it's Yuasa (Japanese brand) that came with Bradley (68 bug) when I bought him 2 years ago. I can't read the date tag on it (it looks old), but it's 430CCA.
Like I say - overkill - but it works fine.
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/ |
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rizzag |
Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:29 pm |
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well aussie, my battery says it has 150 minutes of reserve capacity. is that good compared to other batterys? maybe in this case size DOES matter. LOL i did learn something new about the amp hour rating but it also seems like high cold cranking amps and high amp hour ratings go hand in hand, in car apps anyway. |
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keifernet |
Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:43 am |
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Wow! I in no way wanted this thread to get inflamatory... and I have a great deal of respect for Rob and MANY others who regularly post good techie advise ect on here.
Like Rob states we all can (and do) learn something new from going back and forth on things... I have said before I do not consider myself an EXPERT on anything, but I do know a good deal about certain things and I try to post my knowlege of (certain) VW related systems, ect. as accuratly as possible and based on my personal experiences ( and preferences, which sometimes thats where the disagreements lie)over the years.
Sometimes I am wrong and I always try and correct my posts and acknowlege that fact.
Other times I may stand upon my belief. This is mostly on a preference issue and or semantics... some people call things different names and use different techniques to get things done... the way of the world thats all. No big deal to me. If the end result makes the person happy, it's safe and no one is going to get hurt, fine.
While Rob and I ( and others)tend to disagree on certain things from time to time I do not harbor any animosity twords him ( or any others) and I do not think he purposely is bashing my posts for sport. At least I hope not anyway LOL! |
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rizzag |
Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:17 am |
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your a nice guy keifer and an asset to the samba community |
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-Rusted_Radio- |
Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:26 pm |
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Lets say I have a battery with 850 cranking amps. Could this be making my wires get hot and my voltage regulator to smoke? |
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Randy in Maine |
Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:50 am |
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I have a different take on it.
I buy a battery with a warranty for as long as I intend to keep the car. Do it once and forget about it for the next few years. Well, don't exactly forget about it.
Battery construction has changed over the last 25 years, but most of the ones I see will not go more than 5 years. Half of them die in 3 I would guess.
I am making the switch to the red/yellow top optimas in the bus more for the "no rusting of the battery boxes than anything else", but I don't know if you can fit them under the back seat of a beetle. I would probably use side terminals since I once had a seat fire due to shorting out at the seat springs.
I generally like big numbers of CCA, since I used to live in the midwest where it got cold, but VWs don't generally draw or charge a lot of amps. Wipers? Radio? I drive with my headlights on all of the time which is probably the biggest load. |
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keifernet |
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:02 am |
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-Rusted_Radio- wrote: Lets say I have a battery with 850 cranking amps. Could this be making my wires get hot and my voltage regulator to smoke?
Wow, blast from the past.... this thread originated in Mar 2003!
850 cranking amps is nearly double... so that could very well be.
I don't know for sure as I have never used such a arage battery in any VW... I have started some engines in the shop using a larger battery but that is different.
It could have an effect on the wiring harness and charging system if you are trying to run such a large battery full time. |
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keifernet |
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:03 am |
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-Rusted_Radio- wrote: Lets say I have a battery with 850 cranking amps. Could this be making my wires get hot and my voltage regulator to smoke?
Wow, blast from the past.... this thread originated in Mar 2003!
850 cranking amps is nearly double... so that could very well be.
I don't know for sure as I have never used such a arage battery in any VW... I have started some engines in the shop using a larger battery but that is different.
It could have an effect on the wiring harness and charging system if you are trying to run such a large battery full time. |
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Bruce |
Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:05 pm |
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Rob, you have to look at where we are. We aren't living in the land of perpetual summer. When the temps get below -20ºC, a puney-ass 300CCA battery ain't gonna do squat but leave you stranded. Add to the cold is the shorter days meaning the headlights are on a lot more than usual. |
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Aynthm |
Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:41 pm |
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Didn't all batteries have removable caps in 1966? |
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galax-z |
Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:40 am |
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best bet- if it has removable caps on top , don't buy it. get a maint. free(lead calcium) . absorbed glass mat(like optima) is an example, but the agm bat is designed for rough or high vibration service. |
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