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Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:16 pm

I've got a 1966 with it's original distributor and what I initially thought was the original vacuum can. After reading through a few posts including a very in depth one dealing specifically with all the vacuum cans that VW used I now think my vacuum can may have been replaced.

My question is, what vacuum can is correct for a '66 Type 1? I think it's a 205 K and it should be timed at 7.5 degrees on the flywheel apparently. The vacuum can that's on my dizzy appears (I think anyway) to be a later unit from a 68-70 Type 1. If that's the case I think I should be timing my engine at 0 degrees TDC right? Maybe that's why it runs so great, it's getting crazy advance and making more power?

Can somebody provide insight on what I should be timing my engine at or whether a 68-70 vacuum can is an acceptable replacement for the stock '66 unit. After driving the car for 5 yrs with this vacuum can it seems to run great so I'm tempted to but another one once my dizzy is rebuilt. Any thought's would be great. Thanks,

Stretch

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:18 pm

Vacuum can is 07017

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:21 pm

I just found a chart with vacuum can numbers and the one on the shaft of this can is "042." Would that make it a 71-72 Type 4 AT vacuum can?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:35 am

You probably found my chart - which took me a lot of time to put together and still has an error or two I didn't catch before I posted it. Anyway, a 72-74 Bus vacuum canister would be a DVDA. The Vac-only canisters from 1966-1970 are larger in diameter, slimmer, and have just one vacuum fitting on them. There was a discussion of mid-60s vacuum cans in this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=307450&

Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:04 am

Speaking of chart. Is there a chart that shows OEM years used, distributor numbers and operational specifications, specifically amount of advance vs amount of vacuum and rpm.

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:17 pm

No, there isn't any chart that shows everything. Vac-only distributors are adjustable anyway so those are dependent on how much return spring tension you have. So you'd have to go by the distributor specs for the curve, but the total advance will still be part of the canister itself. The advance curves are shown in the Bentley manuals, and there's a lot of info to be found here

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm

I put this other chart together a while back becuase the oldvolkshome chart only shows the warehousing "ExP NO.", aka "short numbers" which don't help much if you find a box with only a long number on in it, or just a VW number, or if you are trying to ID a vacuum canister by looking up the number on the operating arm - if it's even got a number there - a lot of older ones don't. It took me quite a lot of research to do this, and it's still a work in progress - I can't change the image I have in my Gallery (unless I have Everett delete it and I put a different one up, and I may do that at some point) and there's a few things I found that don't cross reference right and in my "I'll go back and figure this out later" forgot to put the AA on the end of the 1969 Autostick distributor. And then there's that one at the bottom, 07223 - that's a superseded part number. I didn't dig up the original number 07091 until later.

And back to that other question - a vacuum canister with 042 stamped on its arm? THE NUMBER ON THE OPERATING ARM IS NOT THE WAREHOUSING SHORT NUMBER. That number is the end of the Bosch LONG number and my chart doesn't show any that end in 042. (In fact, Bosch long numbers for vacuum canisters, for whatever reason, almost always ended in odd numbers, not very many are even.) The Bosch short numbers are just warehousing numbers - they do not appear on parts themselves, just the boxes they are in. And I only listed VW and 914 distributors on my chart. But looking in my various books I don't see ANY vac cans that end in 042 on the long number. There IS a 142 - that's the 07005 vacuum unit, but I have no idea what it was supposed to fit. I don't believe its VW.

-Andy

These are all the vacuum canister numbers I know of - this is only the cross reference from long to short number. Many of these are NLA parts.

Again, any number stamped on the operating lever of the vacuum canister
is the last digits of the LONG NUMBER (in bold here)

Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:18 pm

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been out of town for a couple of weeks. I went back and looked at the vacuum can again and it definitely says "042" on the arm. It fit my 1966 Bosch 0 231 137 009 distributor perfectly. I've posted a few pictures so somebody with more knowledge can see what I've got. I attempted to take pictures of the arm with the "042" on it but my camera just won't hack it since it's pretty small. Overall this looks like every other vacuum can I've seen in terms of size but who knows. Any thoughts?

Stretch

Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:23 am

Well, not sure about the 042. I don't think I've ever seen an 009/K with a number on its arm. Several other distributors from 1966-67 also used that same canister though, and below is an example of the only one I've come across (and it was in an 017/311905205G distributor- same canister though) with the number stamped on it. Also, in the following thread from a couple of years ago, we talked about this some.

Really the best thing to do is measure the amount of travel you get from the operating arm. Just hold a small ruler up next to the arm and put a hose on the can's fitting and do the suck/blow thing and watch the travel of the arm - if it's 4.5mm, that's what you want, 5.5mm is more like you'd get out of the canister used on the 021/M and 035/T distributors. (timing at TDC with that one)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=307450&start=19

And this is that very recent photo I took of the only time I've actually seen the 07017/0231121210 with a 210 number stamped on it:

-Andy

Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:49 am

Thanks for the input Andy. I'm not really sure either whats going on with this can since it came from a car that's very original. However, it's obviousy been replaced at some point based on what I've been reading. I'll try and get a measurement of the advance as you mentioned. If it is in fact a 5.5mm travel arm and I've been setting it incorrectly at 7.5* before TDC (like the Bentley says to do for a completely stock distributor) what is the net result? The car seems to run great and has pretty good power and acceleration (for a 1641cc anyway) so I don't believe it causes a major problem if it is timed incorrectly. Thanks,

Stretch

Just a note, I found a vacuum can in the classifieds and it's listed as a 40hp unit (JUR 4?) but it has an "042" on the arm. Can this be correct?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1018740

Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:17 pm

That's not for a 40HP distributor. He even says it's for an 035/T distributor, which was 1969-70 1500SP and 1600SP. That JUR4, once Bosch went to 10 digit part numbers, they kept some of their older letter designations around but they became more of a "series" type number, not a specific part number. There were several VW distributors that had JU4R on them. But only when part of a longer string, such as the ZV/JU4R3 was it an actual specific part number. (which was a 40HP unit) But you don't go by those letters on later distributors. You go by the 10 digit part number. I don't know where that 042 is coming from, as far as I know, it was an 07024 for the short number that Bosch later used, 1 237 121 279 for the long number (and 279 would have been the arm number) or 113905271B for the VW number.

If you had such a unit and set it to 7.5BTDC, you'd end up with about 40 degrees of total advance. WAY too much, not healthy! Always a good idea to verify your total advance with a timing light.

-Andy

Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:39 pm

Well, in the end I was able to buy a NOS 07017 (Bosch 210) vacuum can from the classifieds. I should now have the correct one for my '66 distributor so it would seem. I'm getting the distributor rebuilt so once it's back in the car it should time and work correctly. Thanks for the input and help.

Stretch

Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:13 pm

I have a 113-205T distributor that had that same 042 vacuum can. It looks the same, but the rod won't fully go back to 0 if uses a stock return spring. There are 3 options you can try; 1) static time it to 7.5 BTDC, this actually more or less turns it into 113-205K with a very similar advance curve with a max advance of 33. 2) another way is to use a centrifugal advance spring out of an old 009 and replace the stock return spring with that. This shorter/weaker spring will allow the can to fully retract giving you it's actual full 5.5mm throw. This is timed to 0 TDC with a full advance of 34. The advance comes in a lot earlier than stock because the spring is a lot weaker. 3)You can try to trim the stock spring slightly to allow the can to fully retract. I had limited success with this method. Best thing to do is stay with the stock spring and buy the right vacuum can. I'm still interested in what this 042 can off.

Ben