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Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:13 pm

Hi all, pretty new here. I picked up a 66 beetle about a month ago and I've been slowly tearing into it. It's got a 1300 in it that I'm guessing has been sitting since 1993. I was told that it ran last summer when it was moved into a garage but who knows.

Anyhow, I'm doing a body off resto and I'm wondering what I should do with this engine. I've read on here that it may be desirable to someone doing a super detailed 1966 Beetle restoration.

I've been stripping the engine down so I can check the numbers on the heads and then pulling them to check the bore size and condition. I also read that this is needed to verify if it is truly a 1300.

I'm still pretty green to working on VWs and their engines. What are my options for boring it out and increasing it's displacement? If I turbo it, what do I need to do it first?

Thanks for your help!

Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:39 pm

You could slap some 1600 P & C and heads on it.
If the 1600 heads are single port, your engine will look 99,99 % stock.

Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:54 pm

Check to see if it is a 1300 by the engine code under the generator stand. If it is an 'F' code engine it is an original 1300. It may not be the original displacement as those piston & cylinder sets are no longer made. You can hardly find stock 1500 P&C sets.

As Komissar mentioned you can build a 1600 dual port engine from it as easily as building a later 1500 or 1600 engine.

It might be of greater value to someone wanting to keep a 66 original as possible than to someone wanting to hotrod it. Since it is a single relief (oil) case and is quite old you might be better off selling it and buying a later case if you want to hop it up some.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:46 am

Thanks for the replies! I did check the engine number, it is a 1300, per the code on the engine block.

Were there differences in the engine design other than displacement that make using a 1600cc case better than building up a 1300 case with new head and cylinders?

Old VW Nut, you mentioned the case age and the single relief, are these features/designs that changed through the years with these engines?

As cool as it would be to build up the original engine that came in the car (for nostalgic purposes), I'm not opposed to buying a 1600 DP and dropping that in there. I want to make sure I go the best route while I have everything torn apart.

Its looking like the best option is to start hunting for a good 1600 dual port engine to work with rather than trying to make the 1300 something that it isn't. I'm not concerned with making it look stock. I plan on giving this car the "socal" look. There probably isn't much sense in keeping the original engine if i'm going to modify other parts of the car.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:07 am

The only other real difference in the 1300 engine beyond the small-valve heads, was a specific 30PICT-1 carburetor - it did not have a high speed enrichment (power fuel) outlet in it.

You could try for the old "milage motor" thing and keep it 1300, with the small valve 1300 heads (maybe flycut to boost compression a little and soem port/polish work) and throw on some dual Weber 34ICT carbs. You'd get a bit of boost in power and efficiency - if you keep your foot out of it you could potentially get some good MPG readings. But if you need the power, your plan to go with a 1600DP would probably suit your better.

Single relief - all VW engines were that way until the dual ports came out for 1971. At that time, the 1300 engine (not seen in the USA) was turned into a dual port engine and went from 40 to 44 bhp DIN, (which happend to be the same HP reading as the 1500SP)
-Andy

Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:23 am

If you are "pretty new to the VW scene", why not just freshen up the 1300 and drive it that way for a while?

Learn what you have before you start making changes. You may find that it is more then plenty for what you are doing with the car.

If not, at least it will help you learn where you need to go from here. Learn the basics first, then work on going faster.

It's that learn to walk before you try to run thing.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:45 am

Thanks for all the info. Drscope, I totally agree. I'm trying not to bite off more than I can chew at one time with this project. I'm trying to learn as much as I can while I have everything apart and more accessible. My last project was a 1967 Toyota Landcruiser which slowly snowballed into a heavily modified monster, which is something I'm trying to not recreate!

Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:10 am

bladerunner80 wrote:

Old VW Nut, you mentioned the case age and the single relief, are these features/designs that changed through the years with these engines?

As cool as it would be to build up the original engine that came in the car (for nostalgic purposes), I'm not opposed to buying a 1600 DP and dropping that in there. I want to make sure I go the best route while I have everything torn apart.

The best reason to start with a dual relief case is if you plan to modify the engine for larger displacement for the most HP you can squeeze out of it. The single relief cases don't control oil flow as well as the more modern dual relief cases. The oil gallery is better designed on the dual relief case. If you do use the F case just make sure it is inspected by a competent machine shop that knows where to look - and don't build a 120+ hp engine from it.

I recall reading a few articles years ago about the reasons why VW went to the dual relief cases - they also changed the material used to make the case - making the later ones less brittle than the early 1300-1500 engines. The early 1300-1500 engines were prone to pulling head studs from the case - it'll need case savers - and more.

Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:55 pm

bladerunner, let's give you some basics so you can make intelligent choices with your engine.

The 1300 has a forged crankshaft with a 69mm stroke. Later engines such as the 1500 and 1600 use the exact same crankshaft. If you buy a crankshaft with a larger stroke than the 69mm, then you can refer to the crank as being a "stroker".

The original pistons in your 1300 would be 77mm diameter. The round openings in the engine case where the cylinders fit in (often called "spigots") are the same size diameter as on later engines which use 83mm pistons (1500) and 85.5mm (1600). The cylinders on the 1300 engine are really thick; on the later engines the cylinder wall thickness decreased to accomodate the larger inside diameter of the pistons.

If you want to go for cylinders larger than the 85.5, then you must take the engine completely apart and have it machined so that the spigot diameter is enlarged. Larger Piston/cylinders are 88mm (1679cc), 90.5mm (1776 cc), and 94mm (1915cc). These are generally collectively known as "big bore".

The original 1300's cylinder heads are "single port" which means that the intake manifold feeds the head and both cylinders with a single round opening- the two combustion chambers of the head share a single "port". Furthermore, the valve size head diameters are something like 30mm exhaust and 32mm intake.

The first upgrade would be if you fit larger cylinders. Remember, those from a 1500 or 1600 fit right into the case with no work. However, up at the head those cylinders have a larger diameter than the hole in the 1300's head. You'll need to have the 1300 head machined to increase the diameter at each cylinder location for the larger diameter of those cylinders.

Next, the single-port head of 1500 and 1600 engines are already machined for the larger cylinder diameters of those respective cylinder sizes. So if you get some 85.5 piston/cylinder sets and a set of 1500/1600 single-port heads, those all assemble without any machine work. This is what Kommissar wrote. Another bonus is that the valve sizes on these heads are larger, with 32mm exhaust and 35mm intakes- whcih gives you more power.

If you go for any of the forementioned big-bore sizes, you'll have to send the heads out to be bored for the larger cylinder diameters also. Or just buy NEW heads which can be pre-machined already.

Finally, you can buy cylinder heads called "dual ports" which came on the 1600 VW engine from 1971 on (Beetle+Ghia; known as "type 1"). Those have the same 32/35mm valve sizes as the 1600 single port, but have one port for each of the two combustion chambers. This provides better flow for the intake mixture. If you plan to build even a mild engine with dual carburetors, the dual-ports are a good basis. Most "ported' heads are based on dual ports.

The stock camshaft for a 1300 is exactly the same as for 1500/1600.

If you are interested to read up on the details of parts interchangeability, as well as the actual rebuild of the engine, I can strongly recommend the book by Tom Wilson "How to rebuild your VW aircooled engine".

Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:58 pm

1300 pistons are most definitely available new - harder to find, but they're available...

http://www.eisparts.com/111198057ABR.html

The 1300 has a following in Europe; I've found various sources that have 77mm pistons for sale -

bnc

Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:47 pm

Rome - That was a kick-ass explanation. I knew all that stuff already 'cause I have that book too (in fact I have 2), but it was nice to hear it all out plain and simple.

K

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:27 am

didget69 wrote: 1300 pistons are most definitely available new - harder to find, but they're available...

http://www.eisparts.com/111198057ABR.html

The 1300 has a following in Europe; I've found various sources that have 77mm pistons for sale -

bnc

They are 1200, different from 1300.