TheSamba.com :: View topic - Hydraulic cam & lifters for type 1 engine

Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:41 pm

OK - so I've searched the forums and can't seem to find a diffinitive answer for hydraulic cams and lifter for the type 1 engine. I have a 1600 DP AE case that I'd like to install hydraulics in to stick in my newly acquired 71 Ghia. I know this is the SB and late Bug thread but the Ghia forum is dead and the engines are the same.

I built a 1500 H case based engine in 1975 with hydraulic cam/lifters and had no problems and I drove it many miles. Those were slip in parts and no machining was done. I had to shorten the pushrods but the main cause of that was a deep fly-cut (.120") of the DP heads that reduced the overall width of the engine. With a set of Kadrons that 64 really got up and went. Compression was probably around 10:1 and NO PING! Good gas was still available back then.

So what is the deal with hydraulics these days? Do I need to have the case modified or are there parts available that slip right in to an unmodified case?

And please - before anyone starts telling me how easy it is to adjust valves every 3-5k - I'm 63 years old - I have a bad back - neck and shoulder problems - and have trouble getting hands to work above me while laying on my back. Not to mention the problems of getting back up to spin the motor for the other head.

I want hydraulic lifters. Period!

Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:35 am

sorry I don't know if thy are bolt on or not. I know thy are available, the only bad thing I have ever heard about them is that there not as responsive as solid lifters, but it don't sound like your going to be drag racing :wink:

Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:21 am

Hey OldVWNut,

I recently picked up a 74 VW Thing to add to my stable(67 Single Cab & 69 Bug). I am in the process of finding out "What I bought & what it needs". When I was going to adjust the valves, I discovered it had a solid rocker shaft conversion and hydraulic lifters. Don't know what else at this point. With quite a bit of searching over on the Shoptalkforums.com site, I found some info about the Hydraulics. At least it is a place to start, and as I can remember, there were some threads, articles, and links to info.

On your other issue - don't give up quite yet. I'm 72 and do all my own work on my VW stuff plus helping others with theirs. Keep moving, it's the best thing you can do for yourself.

Fred

Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:44 am

OLD VW NUT wrote: And please - before anyone starts telling me how easy it is to adjust valves every 3-5k - I'm 63 years old - I have a bad back - neck and shoulder problems - and have trouble getting hands to work above me while laying on my back. Not to mention the problems of getting back up to spin the motor for the other head.

I want hydraulic lifters. Period!
not trying to change your mind here, but don't you have to crawl under there anyways every 3k miles to change the oil? what about other regular maintenance like adjusting the brake shoes, transmission fluid, repacking wheel bearings and cv joints, changing the brake fluid, lubing the front beam, tune ups and spark plugs, etc?

seems like eliminating the valve adjustment doesn't really save you much labor in the grand scheme of things. a better option might be finding a good vw shop that can do the work for you- i can't imagine a vw valve adjustment costing more than 1 hour of labor.

btw- i love your politicians and diaper quote - too true!!

Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:03 am

fmartin_gila wrote: Hey OldVWNut,

I recently picked up a 74 VW Thing to add to my stable(67 Single Cab & 69 Bug). I am in the process of finding out "What I bought & what it needs". When I was going to adjust the valves, I discovered it had a solid rocker shaft conversion and hydraulic lifters. Don't know what else at this point. With quite a bit of searching over on the Shoptalkforums.com site, I found some info about the Hydraulics. At least it is a place to start, and as I can remember, there were some threads, articles, and links to info.

On your other issue - don't give up quite yet. I'm 72 and do all my own work on my VW stuff plus helping others with theirs. Keep moving, it's the best thing you can do for yourself.

Fred
I do what I can. I build my own motors and I can install them if I need to but I have a nephew that does a lot of the heavy work. He replaced all the suspension parts and installed the 4 corner discs on my 72 SB - and installed the motor. He also prepped and painted it for me. He does mechanical work and body and paint too. The car looks great.

Here is the thread I started announcing (bragging?) the Ghia purchase:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5193639&highlight=#5193639

Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:51 am

I can't speak for how hard these will be to install. You might give a call to the retailer for advice:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=58

Also, Antonio Trejo has posted a bit of info on Mexican Beetles that came w/ hydraulic lifters. I can't seem to find details that say that will work with stock dual-relief cases? Maybe Antonio knows? He might even sell the hydraulic lifters too!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=84077

Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:23 am

Roy Henning (MOFOCO) may be able to expound on the use of hydraulic lifters. I believe the MOFOCO 1776 Streetwise motor uses them.

I'm "older" too...and agree with you. If I ever build another motor when I retire, I will be sure it's got hydraulic lifters...they are much less hassle and much quieter than solids.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:29 pm

Our drop in hydraulic kit is the only one of it's kind. We manufacture the hydraulic lifters in house and have specially made hydraulic cams and push rods made as well. The only catch is that the lifter bores MUST be within factory spec or the lifters will bleed down quickly. This is why we only build hydraulic engines on brand new cases. I have successfully built them on reman cases in the past, I don't want to discourage you, but you must make sure the lifter bores are still good. The second catch is that we recommend having a spin on filter either with a filter pump or full flow.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:34 pm

[email protected] wrote: Our drop in hydraulic kit is the only one of it's kind. We manufacture the hydraulic lifters in house and have specially made hydraulic cams and push rods made as well. The only catch is that the lifter bores MUST be within factory spec or the lifters will bleed down quickly. This is why we only build hydraulic engines on brand new cases. I have successfully built them on reman cases in the past, I don't want to discourage you, but you must make sure the lifter bores are still good. The second catch is that we recommend having a spin on filter either with a filter pump or full flow. The engine is already drilled and tapped for full flow - its at Rimco right now getting other work done - machined for 90.5s - welded on #3 - clearance for 82mm crank - sand seal - etc. I wouldn't be without a filter. The lifter bores were tight as checked with the used lifters that came out of the engine. No play.

Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?

Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:45 pm

I know there are many hydraulic engines out there but I get conflicting reports about advantages and reliability. For what its worth, Bernie Bergman says he has built a gazillion hydraulic motors and they all get a gazillion miles on them with no problem. Maybe he is using MOFOCO's kit. Do your homework well.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:46 pm

OLD VW NUT wrote: Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?
i didn't see the word 'pioneering' anywhere, or 'first' or 'original' or any other synonym for that matter. he said it's the only one of its kind. presumably because it's different in design from other kits, or because no other similar kits are currently being manufactured. 1975 is irrelevant.

Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:05 pm

torsionbar wrote: OLD VW NUT wrote: Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?
i didn't see the word 'pioneering' anywhere, or 'first' or 'original' or any other synonym for that matter. he said it's the only one of its kind. presumably because it's different in design from other kits, or because no other similar kits are currently being manufactured. 1975 is irrelevant.
You'd have to read the claim on their web site. FWIW I wasn't making fun of him - I just find it somewhat funny since I was using hydraulic lifter/cam setup 14 years before they claim to have pioneered this.

http://www.mofoco.com/item/Type_1_Hydraulic_Kit/693

Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:11 pm

OLD VW NUT wrote: torsionbar wrote: OLD VW NUT wrote: Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?
i didn't see the word 'pioneering' anywhere, or 'first' or 'original' or any other synonym for that matter. he said it's the only one of its kind. presumably because it's different in design from other kits, or because no other similar kits are currently being manufactured. 1975 is irrelevant.
You'd have to read the claim on their web site. FWIW I wasn't making fun of him - I just find it somewhat funny since I was using hydraulic lifter/cam setup 14 years before they claim to have pioneered this.

http://www.mofoco.com/item/Type_1_Hydraulic_Kit/693

"This is the best Volkswagen Aircooled hydraulic kit on the market today! Mofoco designed this kit over 20 years ago back in 1989 as pioneers in the market. Never adjust your lifters again! Fits all motors 1600cc and up."

I think thy are saying that thy pioneered the drop in kit,, not hydraulic lifters.

Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:28 am

[email protected] wrote: Our drop in hydraulic kit is the only one of it's kind. We manufacture the hydraulic lifters in house and have specially made hydraulic cams and push rods made as well. The only catch is that the lifter bores MUST be within factory spec or the lifters will bleed down quickly. This is why we only build hydraulic engines on brand new cases. I have successfully built them on reman cases in the past, I don't want to discourage you, but you must make sure the lifter bores are still good. The second catch is that we recommend having a spin on filter either with a filter pump or full flow.

Any other hydraulic kit used by any other company is not a drop in kit. All other kits require the lifter bores to either be machined larger or sleeved smaller. We start with actual type 1 solid lifters.

Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:20 am

OLD VW NUT wrote: [email protected] wrote: Our drop in hydraulic kit is the only one of it's kind. We manufacture the hydraulic lifters in house and have specially made hydraulic cams and push rods made as well. The only catch is that the lifter bores MUST be within factory spec or the lifters will bleed down quickly. This is why we only build hydraulic engines on brand new cases. I have successfully built them on reman cases in the past, I don't want to discourage you, but you must make sure the lifter bores are still good. The second catch is that we recommend having a spin on filter either with a filter pump or full flow. The engine is already drilled and tapped for full flow - its at Rimco right now getting other work done - machined for 90.5s - welded on #3 - clearance for 82mm crank - sand seal - etc. I wouldn't be without a filter. The lifter bores were tight as checked with the used lifters that came out of the engine. No play.

Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?

If you're so well versed in hydraulic lifters and used them "way back" then why are you posing questions here? Try some humility rather than coming across as someone whose a legend in his own mind.

Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:49 am

Gary wrote: OLD VW NUT wrote: [email protected] wrote: Our drop in hydraulic kit is the only one of it's kind. We manufacture the hydraulic lifters in house and have specially made hydraulic cams and push rods made as well. The only catch is that the lifter bores MUST be within factory spec or the lifters will bleed down quickly. This is why we only build hydraulic engines on brand new cases. I have successfully built them on reman cases in the past, I don't want to discourage you, but you must make sure the lifter bores are still good. The second catch is that we recommend having a spin on filter either with a filter pump or full flow. The engine is already drilled and tapped for full flow - its at Rimco right now getting other work done - machined for 90.5s - welded on #3 - clearance for 82mm crank - sand seal - etc. I wouldn't be without a filter. The lifter bores were tight as checked with the used lifters that came out of the engine. No play.

Makes me laugh though reading about your 'pioneering' hydraulic lifters 'way back in 89' since I had a cam/lifter kit 'way back' in 1975. Truth in advertising?

If you're so well versed in hydraulic lifters and used them "way back" then why are you posing questions here? Try some humility rather than coming across as someone whose a legend in his own mind.

You may be the forum psychiatrist - but you've mis-diagnosed in my case.

I'm not well versed in hydraulic lifters or I would not have posed the question in first place.

As for being a 'legend' - I suppose you could give me a run for my money with posts such as yours.

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:00 pm

Hey guys...I picked up an 1835 the other day that I bought out of a customers car. I split the case and found it has a Weber 535H in it with Chevy lifters. The engine ran on 2 cylinders because it couldn't pump up all the lifters. Is this a common problem? Lifter bores are within spec...the bearings were a bit worn and it had a ton of end play because someone left out the thick shim that goes between the timing gear and the brass distributor gear...I wonder if it had too much working against it? I've talked to Rimco and the parts guy at Gene Berg and they say they've had this problem as well.

I wonder if the pressure booster kit would help in conjunction with the HV pump it has...

Also the lifter bores look thin after machining...I wonder if that's something I should be concerned about?

Thanks in advance, Ron Ellis III

Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:22 am

Later mexico bugs used hyd, are these parts available? ? Anyone check lifter bore size on these engines? ?

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:17 am

Yeah they did...I wonder what they had for oil pressure? Obviously it would need to be more than your typical stock solid lifter engine has...

Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:06 pm

This is the genuine VW hydraulic lifter on the late EFI VW Beetle (1993-2004). The #%$!!* battery on my digital caliper is out.