TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:58 am

I do have a Gti with an Autotech Wavetech LSD, and it owns.

But, with the van, which we picked up in April '10, I discovered how much an open diff sucks on this van at 1:45am leaving a buddy's house.. I was nose down toward a concrete wall in a parking lot. The van was under trees, a slightly green slime on the surface of blacktop, the parking lot also had a slight roll/tilt. I put er in reverse, no traction I actually Slid further forward.

I had to have my buddy tow me backward.. LAME! No ice, no snow.

Figuring I was going into rebuild mode, I had the peloquins Automatic LSD tossed in, last fall..

Well well, while driving on dry pavement, on wet, ice or snow there is a night and day difference.

From wet, to turning on gravel and goosin it... seeing those two tracks is awesome. I feel the vehicle handles/drives differently.

Recently Seattle got some good snow, while the road was technically closed up behind my house, there were no signs closing it.. So, perfect time for a test.. I started at the bottom at a full stop, and took a stab at it in L1.

The policeman who was at the base of the hill, the towtruck that was towin another car, they each said haha.. no chance! I smiled with mediocre confidence...

Well, that van, Unloaded, took that road covered in Ice/Snow, Like a BOSS.

Between the LSD, I also credit the Nokian WRC Cargo tires.. Very little slippy slip.

I HAD been fearful of taking it into the snow.. Not now.

However, it isnt a Synchro.. which I would love to have.. but I like my Auto.

Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 pm

That's exactly the feedback I wanted to see. I'm planning to convert my van from manual to auto when I swap in an mTDI engine, so I would like to do this with a TBD and higher ratio ring and pinion at the same time. Very cool.

Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:52 pm

There are some people here who think you cant TDI an Auto...

I'd snagged a 3.73 and rockin large tires.. The upper end of the TDI curve dropps out at 4300.

The new Ring and pinion release in 3.31 should really help out.

Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:47 pm

dubbified wrote: I put er in reverse, no traction I actually Slid further forward.
Out of curiousity, did you try the hand brake trick?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:23 pm

Dec '10 when there was a snow/melt and refreeze.. on my way home, while on near flat ground, at a stoplight on sheet ice, one wheel would also spin, causing the vehicle to slide sideways. Unbeleivable.

I was actually so upset as to that occurance, I nearly sold the van. Then someone said Get LSD..

Nope.. handbrake didnt work.. and.. really.. that's not the issue, I did this to improve drivability..

And it did.

It isnt cheap, however there are alot out there that spend 1K on a thing which has far less functionality than to add to the full time driveability of the van.

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:45 pm

dubbified wrote: It isn't cheap, however there are a lot out there that spend 1K on a thing which has far less functionality than to add to the full time driveability of the van.

I couldn't agree more. The stock van's traction is very weak... The Peloquin Posi is of benefit every day and its made me much more confident on steep and slippery surfaces.

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:41 pm

I couldn't agree more that for the money this is one of those things that adds to driveability in so many day to day driving conditions; snow, sand, off road, mud, wet grass. Just an awesome improvement. I have taken my 4spd to its limits and it isn't quite enough. My peloquin 4 speed is out now, and a syncro locker is in, waiting for my first test drive. The LSD is hard to give up and I will probably have to buy one for this syncro tranny, but I'll try the syncro locker tranny for now and see how long i can stand it without the peloquin unit.

I made 5 tries up a snowy hill the other weekend with the peloquin and finally got up there. Pretty cool some of the places I managed to get with that thing.

Dave
The 2wd guy

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:38 pm

peloquin=moar traction.

doesn't make the van push, and doesnt lock during deceleration as some have said. makes chains much more effective for serious snow driving.

not at all a locker for situations that call for that i.e. wheel in the air, not digging from a standing start, or instances where the wheel speed difference necessary to activate the locking function would do more harm then good.

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:20 am

I've driven a van with a stock ZF lsd in ice & snow. Careful what you wish for, its ok until you want to turn & then it just wanted to go sideways. Trying to move forward from stopped on a slightly angled roadway only made the rear end fall off to the side with some forward motion.

IMHO good snow tires and a open diff is safe and very capable.

Mud & gravel & offroading a different animal though.

Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:53 am

Q: Peloquins locker

I have to take my transmission out for clutch work (stupid Small Car setup has failed and is leaking....) so I am almost certain I will have a Peloquins TBD installed even though my transmission only has a few thousand miles on it. ($75 + cost of TBD.)

But what about the Peloquins locker version?

I only envision super mild off roading, if any. That would be in the Western US and maybe one time to the East coast or Canada (in my life time.)

Has anyone with a 2WD and a Peloquins been in a position that they REALLY needed the locker?????

If so, please explain.

TIA!

Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:57 pm

r39o wrote: Q: Peloquins locker

I have to take my transmission out for clutch work (stupid Small Car setup has failed and is leaking....) so I am almost certain I will have a Peloquins TBD installed even though my transmission only has a few thousand miles on it. ($75 + cost of TBD.)

But what about the Peloquins locker version?

I only envision super mild off roading, if any. That would be in the Western US and maybe one time to the East coast or Canada (in my life time.)

Has anyone with a 2WD and a Peloquins been in a position that they REALLY needed the locker?????

If so, please explain.

TIA!

I was thinking of putting a locker near future on my 2wd tranny when I was getting the peloquin put in by Genman transaxles. Just in case, I had Genman transaxles put in a locker version of Peloquin.

So far, I love the Peloquin and I have not missed locker yet. I do miss granny gear though.

If you are thinking of doing just mild off road I don't think you need a locker.

Did you see this from page 3?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pos3oEl7Lk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA0Ftsd0j-A

Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:38 pm

I some how got roped into hanging out with a bunch of guys with serious syncros from Santa Cruz. Most places they go that I can't in my 2WD I don't mind not going. There has been a few times where a lift, some bigger tires, a bigger engine, and a TBD with Locker would have let me go where they went that I wanted to go but could not. My van is a work in progress and the TBD with locker is something I am really considering for when my 180K mile transmission goes. Camping season starts for me when most people start (ie. winter), and I find my 1WD van to be embarrassing last season, I have since upgraded my wheels and tires. I expect that to help, but a TBD with locker would mean the difference between being able to get going with and without chains.

Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:05 am

How many of you installed your own Peloquin. I had my transaxle rebuilt but could not afford it. I would like to get it before winter but don't want to send it back. It's my daily driver.

Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:29 am

I don't use my van in winter at all..however great to know there's an TBD available for it. A revised R&P and TBD makes good sense when the time comes.

I have been running a Torsen TBD in my autocross car (mod'd 84 scirocco) and it's awesome. The few times I've been out doing 0-60 tests (with autocross tires), I've been able to hit 7.2 seconds..not bad for a 2.0 litre normally aspirated 8V :-) Hooking up with the LSD makes a big difference during autocross starts, and late apex power-up.

Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:00 am

For me, the cost/benefit just isn't there. I just had my transaxle rebuilt again and beefed up, and no way the TBD is worth doubling the price of the rebuild.

For the street, the power of even a modified Subaru motor rarely spins the tires because the van is so heavy. Maybe beneficial in the rain - but see below.

For the snow, it's more dangerous, as it will certainly increase oversteer. I'd rather spin a tire and need to chain up, than spin out and go in the ditch.

For the dirt, the only problem I have is that a wheel lifts off the ground; the TBD won't help here. I removed my rear anti-sway bar because of this. Mud would be a definite advantage with the TBD, but I don't find myself in this situation.

My Subaru wagon has a clutch type LSD rear diff. This was a big benefit, because around turns I would be spinning both inside wheels. But a Vanagon doesn't have near the same power/weight ratio.

I'd rather have a locker than a TBD, but this is harder to manage as you need a $yncro case. I think a setup like the new Jeep Brake Lock Differential would be awesome. Some day I'll give this a shot.
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:47 am

I love my TBD. Best money I have spent. Many times I have NOT gotten stuck in snow, wet grass, mud.... because I had traction on both rear wheels, not just one. But it is not for everyone as is clear by the differing opinions. :D

Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:59 am

BlackDogVan wrote: I've driven a van with a stock ZF lsd in ice & snow. Careful what you wish for, its ok until you want to turn & then it just wanted to go sideways. Trying to move forward from stopped on a slightly angled roadway only made the rear end fall off to the side with some forward motion.

I think that is the difference between a LSD and a TBD. The LSD is going to lock up both wheels whereas the TBD is going to give traction to the wheel that is not spinning.

Paul

Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:19 pm

TBDs bias torque depending on their internal gear setup. If one tire loses traction completely, it cannot send any torque anywhere! My Quaife biases something like 80%. Lift a wheel off the ground though and you effectively have an open diff. For autocrossing a front wheel drive it makes good sense as you always have good traction with race tires on pavement.

For those applications where a rear tire is spinning in air (or on really slick surfaces), you need a true locker...or you need to get good at riding your brakes to induce some resistance to the free spinning wheel. Your emergency brake may come in hand for this on the vanagon :-)

Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:44 pm

I have alot of plans for my van. Having the auto this is on the list. Anyone install one themselves yet? I have done NO RESEARCH and would like to know if you can do it with the transaxel in the van.

Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:09 pm

Hey Cliff,

The transaxle is mated between the auto section (farthest forward) and the engine.. So, you'd have to take it out.

If youre upward of 100K in miles, may be a good proactive to have German Transaxle rebuild it.. They did mine, and I'm pretty happy with what I got..

I'm sure the transaxle section could be removed, and the deal could be done..