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Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:43 am

a couple questions...

It just occurred to me that with a suction gun you could change the atf going down the filler/dipstick tube. is that what everyone does? i do plan on dropping the pan and replacing the screen/gaskets, but people on this thread are saying to change the atf a few times to get as much of the old out as possible, which sounds like good advice.

There are other threads on Type F vs Dexron vs Valvoline or Castrol High Mileage etc. and someone brought up a really good question of "I don't know what's in there from the previous owner, is it ok to mix A with B?" I'll have to re-ask this question as it seems like a very good thing to be aware of.

Finally a differential question... this may be dumb (been looking at shop guide but it's rainy outside so I can't go look under the van), but where is the 17mm alan-wrenchable filler hole?

Danke-

Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:32 am

If I'm not dropping the pan, I remove the dip stick tube and drain the atf there. I go by the "Mil" spec on the container to check if it can mix with a different brand of atf. On side of case, passinger side for fill plug. I don't see how the oil could mix with the atf when there's only pressure on the auto section side. Atf would be pumped into the diff side. Atf low, diff over full. With oil in the auto section the fluid would turn black right away from the cluch material. I check to see that the atf is cherry red and has no burned smell.

Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:38 am

jwallis wrote: a couple questions...

It just occurred to me that with a suction gun you could change the atf going down the filler/dipstick tube. is that what everyone does? i do plan on dropping the pan and replacing the screen/gaskets, but people on this thread are saying to change the atf a few times to get as much of the old out as possible, which sounds like good advice.

There are other threads on Type F vs Dexron vs Valvoline or Castrol High Mileage etc. and someone brought up a really good question of "I don't know what's in there from the previous owner, is it ok to mix A with B?" I'll have to re-ask this question as it seems like a very good thing to be aware of.

Finally a differential question... this may be dumb (been looking at shop guide but it's rainy outside so I can't go look under the van), but where is the 17mm alan-wrenchable filler hole?

Danke-

You can drain the ATF at the threaded junction on the pan/filler tube. A suction gun is not the best method to remove the AFT. You will have to drain and refill several times (4) to flush the torque converter. Be careful and do not over tighten the fitting. It will crack.

I like the High Mileage ATF..it has some additional seal conditioners and can be mixed with Dexron. Works well in our old antique 3 speed automatics.

The fill plug for the differential is on the passenger side in front of the CV joint. There is no drain plug on the differential. Your suction gun will work well here. The differential pan gasket is very expensive..for some reason.

Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:15 pm

AtlasShrugged wrote:
You can drain the ATF at the threaded junction on the pan/filler tube. A suction gun is not the best method to remove the AFT. You will have to drain and refill several times (4) to flush the torque converter. Be careful and do not over tighten the fitting. It will crack.

I like the High Mileage ATF..it has some additional seal conditioners and can be mixed with Dexron. Works well in our old antique 3 speed automatics.

The fill plug for the differential is on the passenger side in front of the CV joint. There is no drain plug on the differential. Your suction gun will work well here. The differential pan gasket is very expensive..for some reason.

Thank you, especially the "do not over tighten" bit of advice. In sailing they call it "local knowledge." : )

Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:52 am

JC,
Give GTA (German Trans Axle) a call.
They are the best I know of with the auto trans and very helpful.

It has been a decade since opening an auto and my memory has been Syncroized :lol:

Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:11 am

The part number you provided is for the "back to back" seals. They install into the cover on the back side of the differential. In the Bentley it bounces around where the differentials and transmissions end up. There is overlap. You just need to look closer in the manual.

The cover should come off to replace the seals. There is a large O ring under the cover you need to replace as well. 010 409 259 A 78mm x 3mm. There is also a small O ring 089 409 637 A 6mm x 2mm

There are some tools to do this job, but you can use a piece of 35mm film negative to protect the lips when you put the cover back on. I don't believe you can change those seals with the cover installed. You can give it a shot, but be careful you don't knick something pulling them out. If you go that route, still use a piece of film to protect the lips. All of the above is from my memory, which could be slightly flawed.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:32 pm

rsxsr wrote: The part number you provided is for the "back to back" seals. They install into the cover on the back side of the differential. In the Bentley it bounces around where the differentials and transmissions end up. There is overlap. You just need to look closer in the manual.

Are these the ones you're talking about?

Bentley Page 39.57

Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:54 pm

That would be them.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:55 pm

rsxsr wrote: That would be them.

perfect. thanks!

I have a box full of seals for my AT rebuild when and I'm slowing piecing together where they all go and such.

thanks!

Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:35 pm

how is it that the seals for the drive axles allow the gear oil and the ATF to mix??

how is this thing laid out?

Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:47 am

Merian wrote: how is it that the seals for the drive axles allow the gear oil and the ATF to mix??

how is this thing laid out?

Those are rear pinion seals not drive axle seals. When they wear out, the fluids can mix.

When you split the cases, in my experience the turbine shaft remains in the automatic section. On the end of the turbine shaft automatic end, there are two square rings and a circlip. You should be able to pull the shaft with a twisting motion. These rings I believe seal on the most inner drum. Removing is usually straightforward. Installing is where you usually encounter trouble especially with new rings.

If you can't remove it, you might want to investigate why. I honestly don't know if you can pull the turbine shaft through the pinion shaft. I'd have to defer to the manual.

Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:24 am

The shape of the rings is "square" as opposed to round. All surfaces top, bottom, inner and outer are flat like a piston ring. They also have interlocking tangs on the ends.

I use petroleum jelly to slick up the rings prior to inserting them. Again it is a twisting pressure method. I'd be inclined to seat the shaft in the automatic section while it is separated from the diff.

Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:08 pm

GW says it takes an extra 3 hours to replace these - presumably with the Van on a lift.

Is that about how long it took you?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:39 pm

I wonder if the OP was checking the ATF level cold or warmed up with the engine running like you are supposed to. When I first got my van I checked the ATF level while cold and it was really high.

I did a search on here and saw lots of pessimistic posts about failed coolers and failed seals. Then I read Bentley and found out how to check the level properly and it was all fine.

Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:21 pm

if the Auto Transmission & Torque Converter were replaced, would the differential seals have been replaced at the same time?

Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:34 pm

Merian wrote: if the Auto Transmission & Torque Converter were replaced, would the differential seals have been replaced at the same time?

Probably not. To replace them requires splitting the automatic section from the differential section.

edit, I may have misread your question. I would imagine that if you received a complete rebuilt automatic mated to a replacement differential, that yes part of that job would have been to replace all the seals in the differential section. It gets confusing because you have two independent sections with an automatic transaxle. The auto section contains the "gears" and the differential section contains the ring and pinion.

Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:16 pm

Thx - a PO had it done, so I don't really know what was done...

I do have the receipt and it says "install rebuilt auto. trans. with final drive and new torque converter"

The copy of receipt is cut off so I don't know which PO had the work done, but the name of the shop or dealer is Royal Import Auto Svc., 587-A SW Baseline Rd. in Hillsboro, OR - no idea if they were a heads up shop or what.

The warranty also came with the receipts and it implies that the differential was rebuilt.

Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:34 am

When the back to back seals fail, for some reason, it is more common for ATF to migrate into the differential section. A good way to tell, is to pull the fill plug from the differential. If fluid runs out, it was either overfilled or ATF is passing into the differential. Probably not worth worrying about at this point. Just monitor your fluid levels in both sections during your first few oil changes.

Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:24 am

The bigger worry in my mind is the Auto Trans oil cooler failing and filling your trans with engine coolant!

Just giving you yet another thing to fret about! :wink:

Dave

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:55 am

djkeev wrote: The bigger worry in my mind is the Auto Trans oil cooler failing and filling your trans with engine coolant!

Just giving you yet another thing to fret about! :wink:

Dave

LOL. That's what I'm fretting now... I'm having my auto trans rebuilt as I type this and I'm currently looking a ATF cooler so I can bypass the coolant cooler. I have the Gowesty ATF cooler but after talking to a friend I think I may need a cooler with a fan in order to push air through it while at low speeds.