TheSamba.com :: View topic - Replacing Rear Wheel Seals. Please Check My Work!

Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:29 pm

After removing the old seal from the carrier:

New "Elring" brand seal on left, old "KOK" brand seal on right:

New "Elring" brand seal on left, old "KOK" brand seal on right. The new seal is noticeably thinner:

When fully seated, it does not reach the top of the carrier as the old one did. Is this alright?

I replaced the old Varga wheel cylinder with a new ATE:

Backing Plate, painted with Master Series Silver and then sprayed with Rustoleum. Glenn, if you are reading this, thank you so much! The plates cleaned up beautifully and are a big improvement over my old ones:

Is this the proper spot for the large O-Ring Seal?

Proper spot for the small metal plate?

Photograph of wear on inside of spacer. Still alright?

I then put the small O-ring in front of the metal plate, and then put the metal spacer in front of it, with the bevel facing in, towards the whole assembly and the small O-ring. Is this correct?

I then put the two paper gaskets on the bearing carrier, and applied some permatex:

Finally I reattached and bolted everything:

I basically wanted you guys to check my work. I watched the Bug-Me video on this procedure, but was sort of confused. Rick shows the carrier and assembly on an earlier swing-axle beetle, in which the bearings are lubricated by the transmission oil, and he also showed the later model assembly for an irs beetle. My beetle is a 1974 standard with IRS, but my seal carrier looks, to me, more like the older style. I am also confused that it does not have the small oil slinger hole in the bottom of the seal carrier.

Thanks
-BVD

Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:34 pm

Opps...Just realized I put the seal carrier in upside down...Will remedy this tomorrow... :oops:

Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:36 pm

Are my eyes deceiving me or do you have the ball bearing closes to the wheel? If my eyes are correct, maybe someone can learn me that it doesn't matter which spot the bearings are in, just that you have both?
Or do you have two ball bearings and no roller bearing?

Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:48 pm

Hi - great pics. I'm in the process of doing the same thing but on a swing axle and got a few points clarified. According to the members that replied the large O-ring seal should go on the outside of the bearing. It looks like you've got it stretched on to the next round surface. Also, I've been told the beveled edge of the spacer goes toward the drum so it seats in the main big seal. See my thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=473079

Hope that helps and good luck.

Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:27 pm

Thanks for responding PJ, your thread is very informative. And yes, I think you are right about that large o-ring...it looks like it should go over the bearing, not the other ridge which i put it on. It's strange though, because the o-ring in my kit seemed too large to fit snugly over the bearing.

Maybe someone else will chime in, but I am still really confused about whether the bevel on the metal spacer should point in or out...Rick Higgins in the BugMe video and on his site superbeetles.com, seems to indicate that it should point in, facing the small o-ring:

http://www.superbeetles.com/Tech_talk/jul3.htm

Also, this is the rear seal kit I purchased:
http://bughaus.com/Axle_Seal_Kit_-_311598051A.htm

Do I not need to use all of the components in the kit, being that my car is a 1974 standard with IRS axles?

So CONFUSED :?: :?: ...overnighted the Bentley manual from Amazon in a desperate pursuit of enlightenment as I havn't found much help in the Muir book, or the Haynes... :shock:

Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:49 pm

Chirco.com also has a very helpful exploded views.

Later IRS:
http://www.chirco.com/tech_articles/?p=252

Earlier Swingaxle (PJ, this looks like the same diagram posted in your thread which you linked):
http://www.chirco.com/tech_articles/?p=254

Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:13 am

bvd wrote:

This sure does look like the ball bearing on the outside to me, as Vinnems pointed out, which is incorrect. I do see however that the old set-up you replaced/repacked in the first pic was also like that.

bvd wrote: Do I not need to use all of the components in the kit, being that my car is a 1974 standard with IRS axles?
I believe those kits contained all the parts to do a swing axle or an IRS set-up. So some parts you will not need for the IRS set-up(like the small metal plate I think).

Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:05 am

Hey beetlenut, yea it does look like the ball bearing is on the outside. I havn't touched, repacked, or replaced any of the wheel bearings. Maybe the previous owner used an inner wheel bearing where the outer should be? What is the consequence of leaving it like this? Should I just replace all the wheel bearings and the entire assembly?

This started off as just a brake re-freshening, but as with most things, it seems to be turning into much more than that :shock:

Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 am

bvd wrote: Hey beetlenut, yea it does look like the ball bearing is on the outside. I havn't touched, repacked, or replaced any of the wheel bearings. Maybe the previous owner used an inner wheel bearing where the outer should be? What is the consequence of leaving it like this? Should I just replace all the wheel bearings and the entire assembly?

This started off as just a brake re-freshening, but as with most things, it seems to be turning into much more than that :shock:

Unfortunately often the case when dealing with other PO's work. Would be curious if the roller bearing is on the inside, or just another ball bearing. Depending on what type of bearing is on the inside, I would think at a minimum you would get reduced life from the bearings, as they are not configured to handle the side and axial loads correctly.

Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:51 am

There's some good explainations why rollers should be on the outside here...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5407295&highlight=#5407295

When I got my car last year there was ball bearings on the outside on the rears. After two months they were toast!

Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:45 pm

So, back to his earlier question - does the outer spacer bevel face in (to the the small rubber ring) or out (to the large seal with the little spring it in)? If someone can confirm this it would help us both. Someone must know!

Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:01 pm

Some of the pics in my older thread might help.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=452619&highlight=bearings

Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:57 am

I added some pics of the outer spacer to my question http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=473079 and have confirmation on which way the outer spacer goes, however, from your pics your spacer doesn't look to have the same inner bevel that mine does. Hopefully others can confirm the rest of your work - or have you finished it now?

Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:46 pm

Dont feel bad about doing the large O ring wrong - I did that 4 times on my first ACVW because the PO put it on wrong as well..

Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:59 pm

PJ_1600 wrote: from your pics your spacer doesn't look to have the same inner bevel that mine does. Hopefully others can confirm the rest of your work - or have you finished it now?
I have an IRS trans and not a swingaxle, I'm pretty sure that spacer is supposed to only have the inner bevel and no outer.

Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:25 am

Hey everybody, thanks for all of the help! The threads you guys linked have been extremely useful. mnussbau's thread detailing an IRS setup is pretty much exactly what I am going to do at this point...just replace everything (except the spacers if they appear to be in good shape). As scupbucket mentioned, I think having the ball bearings on the outside is a recipe for failure, and I want this thing to be reliable.

So this is pretty much my shopping list to do both rear axles at this point. Can you guys look it over and tell me if it looks complete?

1) Outer Roller Style Wheel Bearing. Quantity: 2

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113501277A

2) Inner Ball Bearing. Quantity: 2

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113501283

These inner ball bearings are made by VW Mexico, and I am guessing they are just as good, if not better than the German FAG branded ones?

3) Bearing Seal for Inner and Outer. Quantity: 4

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113501315G

Ok that's everything except for the O-rings. Do you guys have any input here??? These confounded O-rings are confusing the shit out of me. The one in the generic "one size fits all rear seal kit" that I previously installed (albeit installed wrong), seemed like it was too large in diameter to fit around the bearing casing itself, so I installed it over the outer larger ledge, but I don't think this is right:

Mnussbau, I see that you did you same exact thing, but I think you said you reused the original o-ring that went around the wheel bearing itself, therefore using two o-rings:

My car did not have the proper o-ring when I took it apart, so I was wondering if anyone knew where to get the proper size inner o-ring (the one closest to the stub axle)? Do you think I could just bring the bearing to the local hardware store and see if they have the proper size to fit around it?

Ok, I apologize for this lengthy post, but my final question is, should I take apart and repack the cv joints while I am in there? The cv boots look like they are in good shape.

Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Its up to you, the job of removing, repacking, replacing boots and replacing cv joints themselves can be done while the drum and wheel are all back together. Just need the 12 point socket head tool to remove bolts holding the the axles to the flanges both inner and outer. For preventative maintenance sure, but totally up to you. My 2 cents. Good luck Bvd

Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:01 am

Alright cool thanks! I figure I'll get the bearings and seals done with, concentrate on getting it drivable, and worry about regreasing the CV joints once it's on the road.

Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:08 am

Any comments as to the completeness of my shopping list???

Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:56 pm

Looks complete except for the o-ring(s). I kept both the large and small ones on mine, never did get a definitive answer on those. A Clymer manual I have says to "grease bearing cover o-ring..." That's the large one so I guess it should be there.