TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:56 am

I see alot of cages that have some removable sections or rear cages etc.. that are bolted together .
If I wanted to have a section that I could remove would a slip joint or flanges that are bolted together going to be a weak spot in the cage ?

The way my cage is going to be it would be much easier if the front section behind the dash was not welded solid to the rest of the cage structure .

Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:09 am

Not necessarily weaker, but the flanges would be the weakest of the bunch. The weld is always going to be stronger than the tube if done right.

If going perpendicular. some of these are nice.

http://mad4wd.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19&zenid=c6d8d867b69bf434c20c1e8a5c88797f

or if having to continue a section these are what to go with, with no real loss of strength. interlocking tube clamps.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Synergy-Suspen...-p-66.html

Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:17 am

The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

This is a slip together rollcage and the slip joints did not fail. This was my Brother's Baja, he was rear ended by a drunk driver traveling in excess of 100mph on the interstate. the car rolled several times on the pavement then slide into the guardrail while on it's roof, then ended up endo'ing a few times before it stopped.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:07 am

lostinbaja wrote: The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

This is a slip together rollcage and the slip joints did not fail. This was my Brother's Baja, he was rear ended by a drunk driver traveling in excess of 100mph on the interstate. the car rolled several times on the pavement then slide into the guardrail while on it's roof, then ended up endo'ing a few times before it stopped.

Perfect timing, I need some of those and I didn't want to have to order them from the left coast and wait 3 weeks for them to get here.

Thanks,

--louis

PS: That cash looks nasty, hope he walked away.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 am

AA-Fab is THE place to go for misc tabs and brackets.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 am

Thanks guys. Going through the body I have under control already.

I tried to find a picture and couldnt so let me try to explain. I was thinking of welding an inner sleeve into one side of the connection and then it just slips into the other side and has a bolt go through to hold it.
Kinda like when you butt connector two pieces of tube together with a piece inside for reinforcement but only weld one side instead of both . Does that make sense ?

I'm only thinking this for the front portion of the cage as it's quite tricky to get the dash to sandwhich between the support and the body as it is much less if this piece was welded solidly to the rest of the cage structure.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:48 am

LouisB wrote: lostinbaja wrote: The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

This is a slip together rollcage and the slip joints did not fail. This was my Brother's Baja, he was rear ended by a drunk driver traveling in excess of 100mph on the interstate. the car rolled several times on the pavement then slide into the guardrail while on it's roof, then ended up endo'ing a few times before it stopped.

Perfect timing, I need some of those and I didn't want to have to order them from the left coast and wait 3 weeks for them to get here.

Thanks,

--louis

PS: That cash looks nasty, hope he walked away.

He came out of it with a broken collerbone, leg and thumb not to mention the cuts and bruises.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:56 am

Im sure he was probably pretty happy to have a cage in there !

Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:43 am

jbreddawg wrote: Im sure he was probably pretty happy to have a cage in there !

The cheap Johnnys Speed & Chrome bolt in cage probably saved his life.

Here is a before:

And an after:

Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:53 am

lostinbaja wrote: jbreddawg wrote: Im sure he was probably pretty happy to have a cage in there !

The cheap Johnnys Speed & Chrome bolt in cage probably saved his life.

It may not be a guarantee to save your life but after riding motorcycles for years I figure the least I can do to add some safty is have a full cage.
That way when the soccer mom in the 5000# SUV talking on the cell phone while drinking a starbucks and yelling at the kids fighting in the backseat takes me out I hope to bounce down the street in my cage instead of having her bumper crush into my ribs .Just my take on things.

The cage in the above pics sure looks to have done it's job well !The whole top would probably have been flat without it.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:54 pm

lostinbaja wrote: The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

I would NOT sandwich fiberglass.... It leads to strength issues and also would antagonize cracking and shattering of fiberglass.... Just put on flanges and just let tubing pass through body...

Dale

Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:02 pm

Dale M. wrote: lostinbaja wrote: The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

I would NOT sandwich fiberglass.... It leads to strength issues and also would antagonize cracking and shattering of fiberglass.... Just put on flanges and just let tubing pass through body...

Dale

Hi Dale,

Since I am getting ready to do this with the rear down bars on my cage, how would you make it removable?

Thanks,

--louis

Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:10 pm

I have been running a Berrien Nostalgia around the dunes for over 10 years with the cage flanges sandwiching the fiberglass in 6 places without 1 stress crack.This buggy gets 4-5 feet of air at times.
The shear strength of fiberglass is tremendous and if you have enough flex to cause an issue there are other problems.
The Manxter cage system is bolted thru the glass in several places and I have yet to hear a complaint.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:12 pm

Louis,
You can sandwich the fiberglass between two flanges.
My Manxter Dual Sport is done that way in the rear tying the cage to underbody support system. Also the side intrustison bars are tied into the cage bolted through the fiberglass.
Bruce Meyers built fiberglass boats before building buggies. He know a thing or two about what will work when using fiberglass and metal.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:14 pm

Mine will be sandwiched in a few places as well.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:28 pm

Okay, I was worried there for a minute. Wife is out of town for 8 days and I plan to get some serious welding done this weekend.

--louis

Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:51 pm

I have always seen these flanges used they are used mainly in off road applications but if you need to remove the bars for other reasons they are strong...............................they are weld in tube clamps

And good luck with the project.

Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:38 pm

LouisB wrote: Dale M. wrote: lostinbaja wrote: The slip joints will make the unit weaker but not a lot weaker. You can also try using 2 or 3 bolt flanges where the tubing is supposed to pass thru the body. Bolt a flange on each side of the fiberglass to sandwich the fiberglass then weld the cage tubing into the flanges. It will gain strength from the shear strength of the material that has been sandwiched between the flanges. It will not move and will be easy to disassemble.

These are available here:
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/listcats.aspx

I would NOT sandwich fiberglass.... It leads to strength issues and also would antagonize cracking and shattering of fiberglass.... Just put on flanges and just let tubing pass through body...

Dale

Hi Dale,

Since I am getting ready to do this with the rear down bars on my cage, how would you make it removable?

Thanks,

--louis

Just place a doubled set of flanges where you need to disconnect/connect cage... Weld flanges to each side, and use grade 8 bolts.... Three bolt flanges are preferable to two bolt flanges...

Same concept as doing exhaust flanges but workmanship quality (welding) has to be better...

Dale

Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:17 pm

Tubing clamps have their place in frame/chassis construction.
They are a very strong connection.
I like using them but sometimes a flange connection will work out better in places.

Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:08 pm

Instead of just accepting the FG sandwich setup consider another option.

If your gonna use 3/8 Hardware for instance, you could cut some small pieces of 3/8 ID tubing the same thickness of the Glass and weld it to one side of the flange setup and drill the holes in the glass bigger.
This way your mating Metal to Metal.

Another option would be to make a spacer that is under sized and as thick as the glass. The cut a hole in the glass and the spacer will poke through and against the other flange.

I have slip joints and I make some Flanges that I am putting in the front legs.

As far as holes in the Glass I just hole sawed the Glass and went and pushed them through.