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Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:09 am

Hey everyone,

I looked at a '53 Zwitter today that is for sale. The asking price is $12,500. I didn't spend a ton of time looking at it, but here's what I gathered so far:

Body and chassis #’s match (January 1953). Engine was April 1960.

Rear apron and rear fenders were later Oval metal. (I didn’t do a bondo check in the areas where they filled in the exhaust cutouts.

Front apron was "correct".

Had original 4 tab hood, but had some damage that was fixed with some pretty poor welding (seen from the inside), but looked pretty good from outside. Didn’t do a bondo check.

Ribbed doors.

It had a gas heater installed, which appeared to be correct vintage. That was interesting & unique (and rare I think for a '53. I think '53 was the first year such a heater was available?).

Body seemed solid, pan seemed solid and original. Again, didn’t do any bondo checks on it though.

Had original ’53 plate on it. Not sure if it’s the original owner or not yet.

Speedometer was later model Beetle, not original.

So, nothing that was too out of the ordinary or unfixable I guess. But, I'm thinking that $12,500 is too much for it, considering the work that could/would be done to bring it back to original. I'm no expert though.

Any advice/input would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Here are some pics:

Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:19 am

id probably pay that for it. i kinda like the look and id probably leave it alone. has it been sitting awhile or has it been driven

Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:26 am

john7 wrote: id probably pay that for it. i kinda like the look and id probably leave it alone. has it been sitting awhile or has it been driven

It's been sitting for quite some time, but it does run. It was started yesterday (which I didn't see), but when I went to start it today the battery was dead. It did turn over a few times though.

I forgot to mention that the driver side door is sagging a bit. Probably nothing more serious than the hinge pins though.

Did Zwitters have 15 or 16 inch wheels? The car had 15's.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:45 am

I can see your dilemma. The price does seem high but if it doesn't need a lot of rust repair you may be ahead of the game. The area you live in isn't exactly Arizona when it comes to rust. To put it another way you might find another one for $5000 but it would need $8000 in rust repair and parts. Step one is to go back and take a long look and make sure it is really what it appears to be. How many zwitter splits are there in Michigan?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:46 am

Oldnslow wrote: I can see your dilemma. The price does seem high but if it doesn't need a lot of rust repair you may be ahead of the game. The area you live in isn't exactly Arizona when it comes to rust. To put it another way you might find another one for $5000 but it would need $8000 in rust repair and parts. Step one is to go back and take a long look and make sure it is really what it appears to be. How many zwitter splits are there in Michigan?

They had 15's

Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:53 am

Seems to be priced right to me, unless if it has rust and hidden issues

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:49 pm

wolfywho wrote: I'm thinking that $12,500 is too much for it,
It doesn't matter what anyone on here thinks of the price, YOU are the one with the wallet, and you are not comfortable paying that price.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Bruce wrote: wolfywho wrote: I'm thinking that $12,500 is too much for it,
It doesn't matter what anyone on here thinks of the price, YOU are the one with the wallet, and you are not comfortable paying that price.

Yes, that's true. I appreciate everyone's advice though, and don't take it lightly. You guys have been in the trenches with this vintage of Beetle, and a lot can be learned from all of you. It's always good to get additional input, just in case I'm forgetting (usually the case) something.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:35 pm

I paid a little less a few years ago for my zwitter. It had more done to the resto, but was missing more parts than yours. As it's been said, if you feel the car and want it, the price is fair being you can look at in person and decide how much rust repair it will need. What you initially see as a rust problem is usually deeper and more to repair. Even if you just want to clean it up and drive it, you have to want the car... that is as important as $500 more or less when buying it.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:38 pm

For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:54 pm

Blue Baron wrote: For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip.

yes, my zwit has the original engine when I got it.

Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:46 am

Blue Baron wrote: For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip.

Thanks Blue. That was my thought too. It seems that all the #'s should be matching for this price.

How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) and parts, and probably wouldn't come cheap.

Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:30 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=471462&highlight=value

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:04 pm

wolfywho wrote: How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) ....
For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine.

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:35 pm

Bruce wrote: wolfywho wrote: How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) ....
For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine.

Interesting. Is this because it wouldn't match up with the original birth certificate? Thanks Bruce.

-Wolfy

Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:12 pm

Bruce wrote: For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine.

The real original engine is of course a nice touch.
But if you put in another one out of the same month, to me it would be just 10% the "wrong" engine.
What makes it that wrong to you if even an expert could not tell that it is not the original.
Putting fenders, hoods or whatever from another car on it, does not make those parts "wrong".
So, I could live well with an engine that is close to the first one.

Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 pm

wolfywho wrote: Is this because it wouldn't match up with the original birth certificate?
Exactly. A numbers matching car is worth more than one with the wrong engine.

Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:31 am

Decide how much of a purist you want to be.

I recently passed up a '53 because it was sitting on a '57 chassis, I just would never be able to reconcile the fact that I had to explain the car everytime someone asked about it. So, I will wait for a more original car and will probably pay a lot more for the "right" car.

So it comes down to preference. Splits aren't common cars. Unless you are willing to pay market price (which is astronomically inflated right now) you may not come across another split.

$12,500 seems high. Personally I would not let the motor stand in the way if you could get the car for 7 or 8.

.

Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:40 am

That is not a one owner car. I figured it would have sold at the auction.

Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:48 am

Wannasplit wrote:

$12,500 seems high. Personally I would not let the motor stand in the way if you could get the car for 7 or 8.

WannaSplit - That's about where I'm at too, based on what I know so far. Thanks for your input.