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joescoolcustoms Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:37 pm

It was suggested that I start a separate thread on rebuilding my Thing Top Frame.

My '73 Thing is mostly original. Original paint except for three fenders. I think the bumpers have been replaced as with the seat bottoms front and rear. The engine is still original except for the voltage regulator and the distributor. The top was still original as was the frame.

The top had unfurled the threads that sew on the side flaps/clips, so it was time for a new TTS top. But my frame was so bent, it was not wise to put a new top on it without either replacing the top frame or refurbishing the frame I have.

Now, being the tight @$$ that I am, it is hard to accept a new top frame when I have two extras and the original to pull parts from and build one good one.

Here is my Thing when I bought it, sagging rear end, gapping top, but a real nice mostly original body.




Not to stray off topic too far, but I fixed the rear sagging, installed wide five disc brakes on the front, removed the beetle muffler and installed a Thing Style dual exhaust exiting through the bumper and a new rear brake job.

Now onto the top frame rebuild.

Here are the three frames I have, the original is the closest.


Original bent side rails.




I guess the PO's may have used it in parades and some body sat on the frame to bend it that bad.

joescoolcustoms Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:47 pm

After removing the frame from the Thing, the next step is to take apart the pieces to determine what was usable. Sand blast the best parts and inspect again.



I had two of the longest side rails in good shape along with about 4 short side rails, one good header bow and no good second or third bows.



Sprayed some weld though primer where the header bow and the long side rails weld together to help prevent rust the best I can.



Then tacked the header and side rails. I will test fit these tomorrow in the daylight before performing final welding.


joescoolcustoms Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:08 pm

The second and third bows I have are bent in some fashion, so they need to be straightened out.

Here is my worst bent second bow. Sad shape and bent in two dimensions.



I used blue masking tape to pinpoint where each bend is. Using a POS Harbor Freight Kinker, I worked on the bends.



This next step does not really have a picture that can describe what I did, nor would a picture show you any insight, but a video clip would. I do not have the ability to film and post so I wil try to describe what I did.

I used the Harbor Freight bender in similar fashion to a English Wheel to get the fine kinks out of the bow. (A English Wheel is used by fabricators to smooth out sheet metal and to input a contour to the metal) I placed the outside two bending stationary stops close together and pumped up the ram with a die on it to where is just put a little bend pressure on the bow. I then worked the bow side to side with the slight bend load on it and twisting the bow at the same time. This slowly works out any kinks and helps make the bow much straighter. If you attempt this, be careful because you can put a twist in the bow and it will not fit the body of the car. I put in a twist in my bow that when I test fit it on the car and laid it back, one side rested on the car and the other was about 1/2 inch up off the body. It was easy to take out that small of a twist, but just be aware it can happen.

I thought for a first attempt with my worst bow, it came out nice.




Next step is to trial fit everything on the body to ensure it fits as it should, then weld the header bow and start my strengthening additions to the flimsey frame.

joescoolcustoms Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:52 pm

Time for a trial run.

Test fitting the top on the car. All parts line up decently. I used the original rivets and just pushed them in place to for a check fit. (some pictures may be repetitive, but they are for my reference when I make some of the strengthening braces to make sure it clears the rails)







Since everything lines up good and I am ready to weld the front two side rails permanent, the next step is to strengthen the frame to help keep from bending in the future.

The second bow is subject to bending if anyone sits on it of course, but also if heavy weights are loaded on the top, like pooling water, snow fall and so forth. So this first gusset is to help keep it from bending.



This gusset will be on the inside of the frame and made of 1/8 inch thick plate. It will be test fit to make sure it clears the pivot of the second side rail.

Captain Spalding Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Looking good. You know, since you're doing all this work, I wondered if you knew about the top frame rivet replacement kit. It has 8 stainless bolts and custom nuts and delrin or teflon washers. I don't have the kit on my top but the guys here who do have it rave about it.

I think K-mann facilitated a group buy a while back. He may still have a kit or two. If not, here's a direct link.


joescoolcustoms Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:15 pm

Captain Spalding wrote: Looking good. You know, since you're doing all this work, I wondered if you knew about the top frame rivet replacement kit. It has 8 stainless bolts and custom nuts and delrin or teflon washers. I don't have the kit on my top but the guys here who do have it rave about it.

I think K-mann facilitated a group buy a while back. He may still have a kit or two. If not, here's a direct link.

A set of those SS rivets are in transit. Hoping they arrive this week.

I made a little progress during visitors, eating too much, napping and general distractions.

The flat bars that run from the second bow to the front side rail were bent on all three tops I had. This tells me they get bent easy.
I added a rib to the flat bars and wow what a difference. I cannot just bend them by hand anymore. The rib will face in and not touch anything in the up or down position.



Primed with acid etching paint and painted Semi Gloss black (HotRod Black)


I used 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/8 angle to strengthen the rear side rails. I cannot twist or bend them now like I could in stock form. I will do this same thing to the front side rails. Notice it ties into the pivot plates on each end make it harder to bend just at the end.



Also welded in the front side rails to the front header bow. Now to make the strengthening angles for these rails.


joescoolcustoms Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:03 pm

A little more done last night.

Primed and painted the second side rails and they are ready to use.



Welded strengthening 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/8 angle to the header side rails. Good weld penitration. Also welded up the drilled holes that a PO installed snaps with.




After painting the header and side rails, all I need is the SS bolt on rivots to arrive from the UK.

Banker Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:02 am

Great job. Keep up the pictures and details.

vgajames Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:18 am

Looks good except for the big blobs of tac weld.I think turning the power down a bit to get smaller beads or maybe braze them in.TIG would be even better but i don't have one just a MIG.I will be getting back to mine eventually.I replaced my header bow inner skin and am doing body work getting ready for paint right now.
Still need to drill and tap upper latch holes if TTS ever ships my stuff.

BNMike Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:52 am

Thanks for the good photos and description, Joe :)

I'll drop by Lowe's while I'm in Rapid City today, and get some steel. This will be a good project for my new TIG machine :wink:

BNMike

90runner Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:27 pm

Thanks for the good info.

joescoolcustoms Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:42 am

Quote: Looks good except for the big blobs of tac weld.

Agree. If I were to do it over, I would drill the original rail and spot weld/plug weld the angle, grind, fill and they would not be seen.




I am now shut down and just waiting on the SS bolt-on rivots to arrive from the UK.

dells68 Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:36 am

Lookin' good Joe. I don't know if you've welded in the gussets to the top tube yet or not, but If not, I'd wait until you try to fit your top to make sure everything lines up. After putting on my new TTS top, I had to ask Larry how to bend the frame to get the front header to go far enough forward to allow it to properly meet the windshield and let the side curtains fit. Mine was bent too far forward which actually pulled the windshield back causing the side curtains to overlap the windshield frame. Larry said to bend it up to actually move the header forward. I wasn't sure, but it really did work. Bend up the top bow and the frame moves forward! Keep the updates coming.

joescoolcustoms Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:50 am

dells68 wrote: Lookin' good Joe. I don't know if you've welded in the gussets to the top tube yet or not, but If not, I'd wait until you try to fit your top to make sure everything lines up. After putting on my new TTS top, I had to ask Larry how to bend the frame to get the front header to go far enough forward to allow it to properly meet the windshield and let the side curtains fit. Mine was bent too far forward which actually pulled the windshield back causing the side curtains to overlap the windshield frame. Larry said to bend it up to actually move the header forward. I wasn't sure, but it really did work. Bend up the top bow and the frame moves forward! Keep the updates coming.

I have them cut out and ready to weld, but was going to wait until the bolt-on rivots arrive and I can "put together" the frame and try it on the car.

This will allow me to custom fit the front rail and the second rail. When the frame folds out, the two rails are supposed to form a straight bar front to back. Most used rails are worn to where when folded out they form an arch instead of the straight line. I can weld the edge and file it until they fold out and lock in that straight line. Then bend that second bow to make the front bow fit the windshield.

I am just getting tight on waiting on those rivots and have it ready for CYW in two weeks. I may end up taking my '59 single cab there instead.

joescoolcustoms Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:24 pm

I received in the SS bolt-in rivots!

Test fit the pieces tonight. I need to do some slight "adjustment" to the front side rails, but other than that, I am ready to clean up the welds, prime and paint.

The side curtians fit the best the ever have. May actually be able to shed water now.









I have been kicking around the idea of installing another bow on the top frame. About 10 to 12 inches behind the header bow, just slightly higher than the line between the header and second bow. When I had it at KTE, it rained at the campground and the top ponded about 10 gallon of water in it. Thought it may help stop or lessen that problem. Weld it in and it would also strengthen the side rails and be out of the way when folded up.

Kinda like this. In the same general location, about the same height, but just attached almost vertical from the side rails.


wbrown45 Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:36 pm

joescoolcustoms wrote: I received in the SS bolt-in rivots!

Test fit the pieces tonight. I need to do some slight "adjustment" to the front side rails, but other than that, I am ready to clean up the welds, prime and paint.

The side curtians fit the best the ever have. May actually be able to shed water now.









I have been kicking around the idea of installing another bow on the top frame. About 10 to 12 inches behind the header bow, just slightly higher than the line between the header and second bow. When I had it at KTE, it rained at the campground and the top ponded about 10 gallon of water in it. Thought it may help stop or lessen that problem. Weld it in and it would also strengthen the side rails and be out of the way when folded up.

Kinda like this. In the same general location, about the same height, but just attached almost vertical from the side rails.


That's it, your thread is going in my reference file! I am very excited by what you have done on your frame. Thanks for sharing all of your good work.

Captain Spalding Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:57 pm

joescoolcustoms wrote: . . . I have been kicking around the idea of installing another bow on the top frame. About 10 to 12 inches behind the header bow, just slightly higher than the line between the header and second bow. When I had it at KTE, it rained at the campground and the top ponded about 10 gallon of water in it. . .
I like out-of-the-box thinking, but two things about that idea would give me pause: First, the upward pressure on the fabric at the extra bow might pull the side edge of the top upwards (where it meets the top of the side curtains) so that it is no longer a straight line. Second, I think the line of the top is one of the signature visual elements of the car, and I'd want to preserve it. Of course that second point is a matter of personal taste.

With a straight frame and a nice taught top you might find that the pooling problem has gone away. Maybe you could fab the part now, when it's easier. After a rain test you can decide if you still need it or not, and buzz it in then.

GI Joe Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:32 pm

I gotta go with the Capt. on this one... I have had the unfortunate event of having Our Thing out in some heavy rain(parked at a show) last year and i didn't have any pooling issues with the top. It is a TTS top with their reinforced frame. About 8 yrs old, but mainly garage kept.
I'd say fab it up and wait and see if you need it later! You will be pleasantly surprised with a good top/frame on there!!!

Awesome work by the way!

joescoolcustoms Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:03 pm

I have thought and mentally struggled with this extra bow since my Thing was in that rain in GA at the KTE. Welded in, it would drastically strengthen the front section of the frame and may help shed rain pooling.

I have thought about keeping the new bow in dead line with the header and the second bow so it would barely show if at all, or, a little higher to help shed water.

After two months of thinking about it, rebuilding the frame, tweeking eveything to make straight lines and lining up everything, I had an epiphany today while driving home from Ohio.

I don't leave my Thing outside anyway. It is garage kept. If we go on a long distance trip that is not day travel and the Thing is back home in the garage, we haul it in the enclosed trailer. So it is almost always in a secure location and maybe one time per year will see a overnight rain storm. I do not really need a rain shedding bow. I am going to leave it off unless I see that once together, it needs the strength that a welded in brace would provide (if I am missing something that the final new top installation will change because of the tightness it will apply on the structure). Then all I have to do is flop the top forward on the hood and install the bow/brace.

I will finish the last two weld on braces tomorrow night on the second bow and install the top this Saturday. More pictures to come.

Thanks for the input guys!!!

GI Joe Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:15 am

Ahhhhh.... Moments of clarity during extended periods of sheer boredom!
Amazing how we can think clearly when we're traveling ~75mph in a 4-6k lb vehicle down the interstate!!! I had many of my greatest thoughts during my career driving days(much heavier vehicle then)!
The amazing human body!



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