TheSamba.com :: View topic - Undercoating alternative you folks might want to think about

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:54 am

The products dont make a mess the person applying them does.
I spend more time taping everything off than actually applying the products.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:54 am

IdahoDoug wrote: Man, where do you guys apply this that you can handle cleanup? What an unholy mess to deal with afterward - would be tough to get off a floor, etc.

DougM

I applied mine in the woods......no, seriously I did. My workshop is actually in the woods. :wink:

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:10 am

Maybe a cheap blue tarp laid out underneath the van?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:07 pm

used engine oil is toxic waste - you should not spray it under the vehicle or, worse, inside the cabin

used engine oil should be taken to a recycling facility (unless your city has curbside pickup)

I'd buy a purpose designed cavity wax product* but if you really want to mix wax and oil, use NEW engine oil. New oil does not contain toxic metals and combustion products and is safe to use.

*Wurth and 3M both make them

There is also a spray with a plastic in it.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:13 pm

tarp is good but I'd be putting lots of newspapers down to absorb AND wear throw out clothes.

I was somewhat concerned re people using old oil because of the toxicity plus the minute metal particles that tend to accumulate in it regardless of the oil filter. Like for the price of new fresh oil, its not worth to use old.

But I will be having Krown do mine, they do extra because of the vintage. Then I'll park it on the street for a few days as we have a brand new parking lot and I'm sure Landlord would get real ugly if I mark it up. I'm just being considerate. It's a job that I could do if I had the tools for application and the place to do it.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:32 pm

randywebb wrote: you should not spray it under the vehicle

Why?

(rhetorical question; all dino oil is toxic... new or old. Old metals... new chemical additives... it's splitting hairs

If you're concerned it will washed on to the road and in to drains...

You must have one of those vehicles that doesn't leak or burn any oil.

And you drive an 18mpg vehicle for why?

I always go here for a sanity check...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw )

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:46 pm

I wonder what is worse.....dripping a little oil....OR expending all the resources to build another vehicle....ANyone have any thoughts on how much fossil fuels are spent building a new vehicle?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:09 pm

Toxic waste or hazardous wastes are legal definitions, based on scientific data from toxicology.

USED motor oil is assuredly much, much more toxic than new oil -- it is not even close - I explained why above.

The env'l cost to build a new vehicle has been calculated and is roughly 1/3 of the total emissions expected from that same vehicle over it's entire lifetime.

Even if it were similar, few people live inside of a foundry, or chemical plant, so the comparison to using USED motor oil inside the cabin -- or even in the backyard where your kids play.

Worse, used oil from outside the vehicle will find its way into rivers, streams, lakes, and seas where you and yours play, swim and where your seafood comes from.

Why people who want to camp (presumably in some semblance of a natural area) would do something like this is beyond me.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:34 pm

Yeah, used oil is bad, heavy metals and all kinds of other bad crap. I don't use it so I don't care. You can't change people, just educate them. I'll stick to my 1/2 bottle clean ATF mixed with wax and mineral spirits. Very little drip off if any and I hope it lasts longer than straight oil. Corrosion-X or somethin for the interior panels is probably the best bet for treating that stuff. My recipe is best for the salt and corrosion caused by road salt.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:39 pm

I guess we need to say tarps or painters plastic on the ground and drip pans under the vehicle to catch the excess.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:01 pm

The Raven wrote: Yeah, used oil is bad, heavy metals and all kinds of other bad crap. I don't use it so I don't care. You can't change people, just educate them. I'll stick to my 1/2 bottle clean ATF mixed with wax and mineral spirits. Very little drip off if any and I hope it lasts longer than straight oil. Corrosion-X or somethin for the interior panels is probably the best bet for treating that stuff. My recipe is best for the salt and corrosion caused by road salt.

There are no heavy metals in used oil, where would they come from?
You're right that you can't change people and we might as well piss in to the wind as to have a debate on the internet. But please, if you find yourself using terms like 'bad crap' then maybe do a quick search first, here...
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/substances/toxsubstance.asp?toxid=123

Yes, used oil isn't awesome but all it is is the long hydrocarbon chains broken down along with engine metal (not heavy metal) and whatever else found it's way in to the crank case. The idea you can use 'clean' new oil safely is nonsense. Look on your bottle of ATF, it says 'Avoid Skin Contact' for a reason.

You want to get all up in arms about stuff your kids shouldn't roll around in or put in their mouths. That RoundUp you kill weeds with to keep your driveway 'pristine' or that sprayed all over the food here in the US.. thats some "bad crap"

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:09 pm

The heavy metals in used oil are "wear metals" from the moving parts in the engine. I am surprised at your question as you will see them assayed any time you get an oil analysis done. Metals like Pb and Co, for example are used in bearings. I am not talking about rare earths if that's what you mean.

Then there are combustion products - long chain polymers are not merely cleaved into smaller chains, but are reacted with acids formed inside the motor and a variety of novel compounds are formed -- ring compounds, acids and etc.

Maybe you missed in in my posts above, but I advocate people using one of the products specifically made for this use - 3M or Wurth. My point is that someone wanting to save that last penny will be a lot better off using new motor oil than used.

We aren't talking about ATF at all.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:31 pm

Used oil is very acidic, especially in an older vehicle with engine wear, and a not so good crankcase vapor recovery system. Acids accelerate corrosion. Heavy metals, you know chromium, cadmium, lead, zinc, etc. Heavy metals are bad for you, target liver kidneys nervous system and stuff like that. Affects kid more that adults. I'm a parent, enough said. I'm sure our small group of Vanagon owners will not kill the planet, but why be part of the problem, why risk your health for your Vanagon?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:58 pm

best place for used oil is the recycler......

Regarding Roundup-

Political rant on----
Roundup is bad....but so is the company that produces it...MONSANTO. Any company that hires Blackwater scum to strong arm farmers who accidentally got monsanto patent crops through acts of nature is plain out EVIL. I'll never buy Round up and will speak out against it when possible. Then again any government that allows a living thing to be patented is also wrong and needs major changing. Change that allowance, null and void all associated patents, kill Monsanto's dominance and get safer and more stable foods.
Political Rant off---

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:08 pm

On a lighter note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nXndQuvOacU

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:30 pm

Fluid Film from their site

"FLUID FILM products are solvent free and consist of an all natural lanolin base, which contain less than 1% VOC in their bulk form.

Remaining solvent free since the original formulation in 1943, the FLUID FILM product line is made of the highest quality corrosion preventives and lubricants available on the market today."

I know it cost more, but it seems much more friendly than spraying oil on the car.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:41 pm