TheSamba.com :: View topic - '81 Subaru 1800 cc and transaxle in a VW Buggy?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:27 pm

Hi, I'm new to this forum and also new to buggys. I just purchased a rolling chasis (Manx or some derivative) and am going to take it on as a retirement project. I also have an old Subaru 4wd wagon with and 1800 motor that still runs. I am thinking of using the motor et.al. for the project.

Is this feasible? I know there have been a lot of conversions using newer Subaru motors and transaxles, and that there is the availablility of a hypoid gear set that reverses the driven direction of the wheels, but I don't know if this set will work in my older Subaru.

Also, are there any other problems that are to be considered if I use my 1981 motor and related?

Thanks for your advice.

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:22 pm

http://kennedyenginc.com/ENGINEOPTIONLIST.aspx

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:40 pm

The early Subaru 1800 motor is a decent motor, but it is quite a bit older. Support for it won't be as strong as the newer Subaru motors. But it is a usable motor option. The EA-81/82 series still have a little bit of support for basic parts, but it's not a horsepower monster...

Welcome to the Samba!

Bryan

Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:05 pm

Yes the www.subarugears.com reverse ring and pinion and accessories will work with your earlier Subaru transmission.

Good luck with your project!

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:10 am

Thanks for the replies. I am excited to get started on this project. I am sure I will have many, many more questions as the project progresses.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:56 am

If you adapt the Subaru EA motor to VW trans by using the Kennedy adaptor & flywheel, you won't need the modified transmission gearing...

bryan

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:31 pm

didget69 wrote: If you adapt the Subaru EA motor to VW trans by using the Kennedy adaptor & flywheel, you won't need the modified transmission gearing...

bryan

Thanks. I have been doing some research and agree the Kennedy adaptor would be the easiest and less expensive route to fielding a running vehicle. Since I am not planning on making a racing vehicle (in- fact it probably won't be driven that agressively since this will be for my wife to drive in and around a ranch we own in northern Arizona), I am pretty sure I am going this direction. I have already emailed Kennedy regarding their recommendations with regard to a transaxle choice for the adaptation.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:33 pm

Some will tell you that 'you need a 5-speed for overdrive', but the VW 4-speed gearbox already has an overdrive 4th gear ...

Good luck with your project!

bryan

Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:51 pm

Pugman wrote: I have already emailed Kennedy regarding their recommendations with regard to a transaxle choice for the adaptation.

A good rebuilt Type 1 transaxle with the normal upgrades would be more than adequate for the "power" of the Subaru 1800. It would also just be a standard installation without the problems of trying to put a Type 2 trans in a Type 1 chassis, plus it would have the best shifting action. A Rancho Transmission Pro-Street would be fine. If you wanted to negotiate steeper trails, etc., a 4.86 R&P would be good too.

http://ranchotransaxles.com/vw-transaxles.html

If this really is mostly for your wife for retirement around the ranch/neigborhood, you might also want to take a look at something like an EMPI Sportster or a Burro, which is easier to get in and out of, sits a little more comfortably, is roomier and just as cute as a glass buggy.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:56 pm

BL3Manx wrote: If this really is mostly for your wife for retirement around the ranch/neigborhood, you might also want to take a look at something like an EMPI Sportster or a Burro, which is easier to get in and out of, sits a little more comfortably, is roomier and just as cute as a glass buggy.

I get the practicality of your recommendation, but this a two-fold adventure. The first being that I have always wanted to build a glass buggy ever since I read about the original Meyers Manx, and second a vehicle we can both (emphasis on the wife) can enjoy. If it turns out not to be convenient or practical, I can always sell it, but I will have had the experience of the build.

BTW, we may be retired, but we aren't sedintary. We still get in and out of a sports car pretty easily. :wink:

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:09 pm

didget69 wrote: Some will tell you that 'you need a 5-speed for overdrive', but the VW 4-speed gearbox already has an overdrive 4th gear ...

Good luck with your project!

bryan

True indeed - but be aware that you will have to contend with the 'hole' that you have between 3rd and 4th gear and changing between them.

I don't doubt that a VW transaxle can handle the power of your 1800 Subie and is a proven conversion method, but thought it interesting to do some analysis of estimated conversion costs - as you need to purchase a few parts :

Rancho Pro-street $700 + Freight
Kennedy Adaptor and Flywheel $440 + Freight
Shortened exchange sump (Outfront) $270 + Freight
Shortened headers (Outfront) 250 + Freight
Total $1660 + freight (say 10% $166) your total is $1826

This assumes you have a decent VW starter and clutch. If you don't - there's more to shell out for.

Subaru transmission conversion kit is $2200 freighted to your door. You get to keep the flywheel, clutch & starter that you already have for your combo - but - you do have to do some work to convert the transmission - or pay someone. There is no need for a shortened sump or exhaust. And now you have the extra gear.

Not trying to change your mind - but just wanted to show that the two options are not so far apart in price as some may think.

Good luck with your build!!

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:45 pm

Pugman wrote:

this a two-fold adventure. The first being that I have always wanted to build a glass buggy ever since I read about the original Meyers Manx

You ought to think about taking a drive out to San Diego and visit Bruce Meyers and take a look at the Kickout.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:18 pm

Original Manx wrote: didget69 wrote: Some will tell you that 'you need a 5-speed for overdrive', but the VW 4-speed gearbox already has an overdrive 4th gear ...

Good luck with your project!

bryan

True indeed - but be aware that you will have to contend with the 'hole' that you have between 3rd and 4th gear and changing between them.

I don't doubt that a VW transaxle can handle the power of your 1800 Subie and is a proven conversion method, but thought it interesting to do some analysis of estimated conversion costs - as you need to purchase a few parts :

Rancho Pro-street $700 + Freight
Kennedy Adaptor and Flywheel $440 + Freight
Shortened exchange sump (Outfront) $270 + Freight
Shortened headers (Outfront) 250 + Freight
Total $1660 + freight (say 10% $166) your total is $1826

This assumes you have a decent VW starter and clutch. If you don't - there's more to shell out for.

Subaru transmission conversion kit is $2200 freighted to your door. You get to keep the flywheel, clutch & starter that you already have for your combo - but - you do have to do some work to convert the transmission - or pay someone. There is no need for a shortened sump or exhaust. And now you have the extra gear.

Not trying to change your mind - but just wanted to show that the two options are not so far apart in price as some may think.

Good luck with your build!!

Above info is not totally correct regarding component pricing... Pugman mentioned that he has a 1981 Subaru donor vehicle, which in 1981 would have been equipped with an EA-series motor... not an EJ-series motor. Outfront doesn't - to my knowledge - support any parts for the EA-series motors. But the homebuilt airplane guys do work with the EA-81 motors... http://www.ramengines.com/id16.html

Subaru EA-81 motor mounted to VW transaxle in trike application, stock oilpan... oilpan could be shortened to gain ground clearance.

http://www.dunebuggyarchives.com/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=541

bryan

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:39 pm

Yes indeed it is an EA instead of an EJ - but you get the idea.
Are you sure the exhaust flanges are any different between the two?
Look at those exhaustson the trike - wow!!
Is that a swingaxle trans on that trike?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:31 am

Original Manx wrote: Yes indeed it is an EA instead of an EJ - but you get the idea.

That's a real good point, Pugman needs to be aware that the Subaru transaxle raises the engine higher than the VW transaxle. So if he mates the Subi engine to a VW trans, beside dealing with the flywheel and adapter issues he'd also need to get the oil pan shortened or just wait for the first rock to do it for him.

Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:18 am

Original Manx wrote: Yes indeed it is an EA instead of an EJ - but you get the idea.
Are you sure the exhaust flanges are any different between the two?
Look at those exhaustson the trike - wow!!
Is that a swingaxle trans on that trike?

The EA81 motor has a two-bolt flanged single exhaust pipe per head; exhaust ports are siamesed into one outlet. Later EJ-series manifolds were different... I grew up working in a Subaru franchise dealership & recall looking at numerous EA-series motors. Exhaust & oil pan mods are cheaper than mods required for gearbox swap.

bryan

Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:19 am

Really good info being discussed here. Currently, I am looking at both options, but here is some additional information I didn't provide previously, sorry.

1. I was given with the rolling chasis a Type 1 IRS transaxle, although it is in rough but working shape. The CVs will definately need to be replaced and prudence argues that I or someone should go through the trans.

2. After looking at the Subarugears website, I am not sure about the transaxle on the 81 wagon I have. It may have a Hi/Lo transaxle, and if I read correctly, the hypoid gear set won't work on this trans.

Also, considering the economics of each alternative, wouldn't I be looking at a shortened oil pan and exhaust system for each? (Edit: I just reread the previous posts. You are saying the Subaru transaxle sets the motor higher so that a shortened oil pan is uneccesary, but wouldn't I still want a different exhaust system? Frankly, I have to really look at my donor vehicle which I will do this weekend. We have a place in Phoenx as well as our ranch in No. AZ. and we are in Phoenix at present.)

All being said, I do think the hypoid gear choice would be the better choice if my Subaru trans will accept them. If I choose that route, what are the other adaptations neccesary to get to a fully installed and running drive train?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:58 am

Todd at Subarugears would have to chime in on this, but it appears that his gears won't work in the 1981 Hi/lo transaxles... and you should be able to get a shortened oil pan & custom header made for less than $300-$400 if you stuck with a VW transmission.

Good luck!

bryan

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:16 pm

Good point Brian - if your Subaru transmission is a Hi/Low selectable one there is a problem fitting the reversed ring and pinion.

To 'flip' the diff you run into clearance problems with the Hi/Lo selectable input shaft, gears and selector. The only way around this is to weld the input shaft solid (in a lathe so it's done straight) and remove all the selector/shaft/gears. Or you can substitute a non-hi/lo input shaft.

All too hard if you ask me! Fit the adaptor plate and associated parts, chop your sump, chop your headers and get the thing built. You will be ahead of 75% of us who never finish our buggies. :-)

Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:43 pm

Well, this weekend I'll find out for sure. I really appreciate the input you all have provided. Man, you can buy yourself into a whole boatload of mistakes if you don't get help from the more experienced. Thanks.