TheSamba.com :: View topic - Trimming the torsion bar end caps . . . ?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:11 am

joescoolcustoms wrote: What will your use be on this buggy? ...

Thanks for that additional info, the buggy will be a street machine. We're building France a Kickuot SS and we plan to, just like our current buggy, drive it cross country. Mainly highway and interstate. It may see the odd beach or trail at club events but far from an everyday occurence.
ref: Progress on France's Dune Buggy

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:13 am

BL3Manx wrote: Get adjustable spring plates, the longer the torsion bar, the better the ride.

Standard Sway-a-way adjustable spring plates are high quality spring steel. The race ones are even better.

http://www.swayaway.com/springplates.php

I was a little concerned that the adjustable spring plates would be noisier or more clunky than the none-adjustable one. Is this a non issue?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:46 am

I have never heard my adjustable spring plates make a sound. Make sure you get SAW and not a copy for China.

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:33 am

Its more expensive and difficult to install (requires cutting and welding), but the SAW adjustable center section is even stronger and I believe has an even greater range of adjustment than the SAW springplates.

http://www.swayaway.com/Components_Adjusters.php#

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Sorry to re-vive an old thread...

I finally got the pieces needed to shorten the torsion to 21-3/4 and pretty happy with the parts I ended up getting.

The inside bushing is knobby 1-3/4 and the outside is round 1-7/8.

I had knobby 1-7/8 and it fit pretty tight on the outside of the spring plate. I went ahead and ordered a round 1-7/8 bushing but it's quite loose. Maybe 1/32 spacing around the bushing on the spring plate. Is this going to cause a problem? Maybe I should shave the knobs on the knobby one and use that instead?

I'll try to take some pictures to show what I mean.

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:49 pm

Sound off gang Dont you need to lube up urathane bushings with talc or something?? They are known to be squeaky
Bart

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:54 pm

How snug do the new round bushings fit when you put the caps on the springplate? (How well do the round bushings fit in the caps) Do the caps have a tight enough fit that they will put some squeeze on the bushing to tighten up around the spring plate spline boss?

They should be snug, but not have to be forced on.

Yes, they need to have lube/grease on them. The special lube should have come with them in the new package.

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:57 pm

joescoolcustoms wrote: How snug do the new round bushings fit when you put the caps on the springplate? (How well do the round bushings fit in the caps) Do the caps have a tight enough fit that they will put some squeeze on the bushing to tighten up around the spring plate spline boss?

They should be snug, but not have to be forced on.

Yes, they need to have lube/grease on them. The special lube should have come with them in the new package.

They fit nice and tight in the cap but not enough to squeeze the inners on the spring plate bushing.

They did come with lube. I'll try to take a picture of the knobby ones and demonstrate the difference.

Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:37 pm

Here's a picture of the knobby one, as you can see, they fit a lot tighter.

I'm seriously considering shaving the knobs on these instead of using the round loose ones. I wonder if I could mount them on the lathe somehow.

Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:55 pm

Hey Vince,
You could also get some brass shim stock to fill in that gap. Take a measurement with a feeler gauge to figure what thickness shim you need. If your 0.032" gap is correct, seems like some 0.015" shim would fit it nicely. Guess you could use steel or brass, though brass may provide a slightly lower friction surface?

I've read the urethane springplate bushings can be squeeky. I went so far once to fit a graphite filled nylon shim material inside a urethane sway bar bushing to eliminate the squeeking. Just have to make sure it can't work its way out.

Jeff

Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:18 pm

glassbuggy wrote: Sound off gang Dont you need to lube up urathane bushings with talc or something?? They are known to be squeaky
Bart

They are notoriously squeaky. OEM rubber are best.

https://shop.westcoastmetric.com/viewProduct.php?productID=113-245-L%2FR

Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:13 pm

BL3Manx wrote: glassbuggy wrote: Sound off gang Dont you need to lube up urathane bushings with talc or something?? They are known to be squeaky
Bart

They are notoriously squeaky. OEM rubber are best.

https://shop.westcoastmetric.com/viewProduct.php?productID=113-245-L%2FR

Are you sure these are rubber, not black urathane?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:43 pm

I know WCM makes new window rubber. I'm not 100% on their suspension bushings. However, I know these are:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/rear_axle/rear_axle_bug/spring_bush.cfm

Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:49 pm

BL3Manx wrote: These are:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/rear_axle/rear_axle_bug/spring_bush.cfm

That is what I recommend unless you are drag/slalom/off road racing. I use rubber for street and mild performance. I only use urathane for extreme performance applications.

Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:10 am

joescoolcustoms wrote: BL3Manx wrote: These are:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/rear_axle/rear_axle_bug/spring_bush.cfm

That is what I recommend unless you are drag/slalom/off road racing. I use rubber for street and mild performance. I only use urathane for extreme performance applications.

I appreciate the advice, the problem is the links provided do not state the size of the bushings. Since I'm not exactly going with a stock setup, I fear I may need specific sizes. Ext 1-7/8 round int 1-3/4 knobby. The previous kit was the other way around.

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:12 am

61-68 swing torsion calls for 1-7/8" knobby on the inside.
1-3/4" knobby on the outside.

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:16 am

BL3Manx wrote: 61-68 swing torsion calls for 1-7/8" knobby on the inside.
1-3/4" knobby on the outside.

That's what I expected since I think I have one of those set. My custom 21-3/4 chrome plates are the opposite and I need round ones on the outside.

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:18 am

69 and later outers were round 1 7/8".

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111511245E

Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:55 am

jsturtlebuggy wrote: To bad CIP1 does not post the diameter of the torsion bar.
It may be that Bettles shipped to Canada did not come with the smaller diameter bar and the Z-bar overrider system.
This is the rating of the torsion bars I was talking about.
The 21 3/4in long 21mm diameter bar is rated at 488 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
The 26 9/16in long 22mm diameter bar is rated at 464 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
Really close in spring rate.

The 21 3/4in long 22mm diameter bar is rated at 588 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
From experience you can feel the difference the 1mm smaller make a big difference.
I still finding 67 and 68 Bugs in Pick N Pull yards. There out there.
And if you do use the aftermarket spring plates, they are a 1/2in wider across the face than stock one.
Without modifying the springs by notching or modifying the stops on torsion housing you may not get even stock travel.

This was on a Tow'd project that was using axles and CVs from a Porsche 924 and I was trying to get the most travel I could get.

I know this is an old thread, but I wondering if this same modification can be done with stock gear and without the axles and 924 CV's? I have the aftermarket adj. springplates and I'm not getting stock lift because they are 1/2 wider. Could I use your same measurments to clearance, or did those measurments account for the extra travel afforded by the CV's?