TheSamba.com :: View topic - Audi 5000 Mount Detail, Bracket Strength Questions. PICS

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:07 pm

Quick question on the Audi 5000 motor mounts. I guess when I looked I entered Audi 200 Quattro, but probably the same part. I'm looking at my usual discount online parts places and I'm seeing several brands available. Meyle, Lemforder (I spelled that wrong for sure) and a few off brands I've never heard of. The Lemmys are the most expensive. Anybody had good/bad luck with any of them? Any to avoid? Thanks, Joel

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Captain Pike wrote: So who makes a plate for the 5?

Why use a plate when VW sold replacement bellhousings for 5-cyl engines?
It's an SA part though.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:13 pm

I'm using the Meyle versions, out of about 12 I've only had one that leaked right out of the box. I just picked up some this morning, the box says "made in China".

Here's a shot of my TDI carrier bars on a 2wd. I drill and tap the spacers under the ears. They're plenty strong.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:26 pm

BenT Syncro wrote: Captain Pike wrote: So who makes a plate for the 5?

Why use a plate when VW sold replacement bellhousings for 5-cyl engines?
It's an SA part though.
I want it for an automatic.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:39 pm

Captain Pike wrote: BenT Syncro wrote: Captain Pike wrote: So who makes a plate for the 5?

Why use a plate when VW sold replacement bellhousings for 5-cyl engines?
It's an SA part though.
I want it for an automatic.

Try KEP:

http://www.kennedyeng.com/index.htm

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:05 pm

on our custom engine carriers we used threaded Rod couplers as mounting ear height spacers
they were the right height, available at the local bldg supply and well the mount doesn't care it's sitting with an american threaded boss ;-)

*when you do get a 5cyl adapter, share the source and $$

Tristar Eric wrote: I'm using the Meyle versions, out of about 12 I've only had one that leaked right out of the box. I just picked up some this morning, the box says "made in China".

Here's a shot of my TDI carrier bars on a 2wd. I drill and tap the spacers under the ears. They're plenty strong.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:34 am

BenT Syncro wrote: Captain Pike wrote: BenT Syncro wrote: Captain Pike wrote: So who makes a plate for the 5?

Why use a plate when VW sold replacement bellhousings for 5-cyl engines?
It's an SA part though.
I want it for an automatic.

Try KEP:

http://www.kennedyeng.com/index.htm
Vague link. Last time I called them they said they had nothing for 5 cly conversions.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:17 pm

Tristar Eric wrote: .....

Here's a shot of my TDI carrier bars on a 2wd. I drill and tap the spacers under the ears. They're plenty strong.

Thanks Tristar Eric. Good to see your set up again. I should have studied it earlier. I might use 2" x 2" box to cantilever out mount bracket. Thinking about that, had wondered: "if mount failed, would it slip off the ear mounts, hit bar, etc. etc." Since an experienced swapper such as you has installed mount on (1" x 2" ?) I assume that even if mount came loose, there wouldn't be enough movement in drivetrain for mount to slip off the ear mounts (spacers). Also good to study your set up in that one major reason I may "get away" with using a cross bar for support; I don't have PS or AC. I doubt I'd ever add those, but may.

Neil.

Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Finally making a little progress.

My lack of fabricating experience and misguided dogged determination, has led me to modify the existing Fox bracket on coolant pump side of engine. Mocking up 3 pieces of cardboard shaped as angle iron, showed that angle iron would have made a decent start to a new bracket. Something similar to what Greg Potts has done here:
http://www.pottsfamily.ca/inline4Engine/pass-side-mount/MyBracket.jpg

My variation

Regardless, I "saw the sport" in cutting the Fox bracket and making a new plate for it so continued on.

I'll be curious to see if the new mounts compress much. Pic 2 is hard to see, but more or less shows how close mount is to oil filter and coolant hose. Trying to get Audi mount as high as poss. to allow largest dimension (within reason) of steel to support it. Once I'm certain the mount position is ok, the rest is elementary; design remainder of carrier to this mount. The d-side Fox bracket sits ~ 2" higher so that should be easy.

Neil.

Level. (oil pan lip shows same. In actual fact, I'm fairly certain the drivetrain should normally sits at a slight angle downwards)

Crap pic, camera batteries died after, but there's just enough clearance to R&R oil filter and Audi mount sits far enough away (toward p-side) to allow oil pan to drop if need be. One reason for my carrier redesign. Cross piece will be 1" x 2" and cross the front of oil pan. It seems AC compressor and PS pump could be re-installed after carrier made. Am trying to take those dimensions into account though I doubt I'd install either.

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:29 am

Looking good.

Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:42 pm

So for a number of reasons, am thinking I might just alter the original carrier I built and do a new one later.

Plan: cut, weld new flat cross piece.

question: will 3/16" or 1/4" flat suffice? Bracing each arm as image shown should be possible.

My MIG *might* properly penetrate 3/16". Maybe grind a 45º, make multiple passes?

Gussets in LH of image:

- one piece centred or
- two: one on each face of carrier.

RH gusset; box @ ~ 45º

If gussets not needed, please advise. Would rather not create a resting spot from water/crap.

I'd move carrier further rearward, add (cantilever forward) 180º brackets for new Audi 5000 mounts. Doing would create more room for downpipe. Would modify Fox brackets.

Thanks for any insights.

Neil.

Hope pic shows what I mean. This shows carrier with Fox mounts, brackets. This design has not shown signs of cracking. Have put many miles on it.

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:22 am

Neil, sorry I don't understand what you are asking. Are you removing the "center" section and replacing with a flat plate? Is the goal to end up with a shield for the pan along with better ground clearance?

It is my experience that sometimes trying to reuse something to save time/money ends up not being worth it. If it were me, I'd try to mimick the carrier bar setup with for and aft bars. I know it is lot of work, but would give you back some ground clearance.

There is not a lot of torque load on those mounts because of the transaxle. So you don't need it to be overkill. And yes, water traps bad, gussets good. mark

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:10 am

Hey Mark.

Apologies if my description wasn't clear.

Yes. Was thinking to replace the current 2" x 1" "center" section with a piece of 2" x 3/16" thick flat steel, (as shown by long horizontal arrow) to gain ground clearance. No. Wasn't looking to make a pan shield with this piece.

I'm finding that for me, it takes a lot of time to design something "new" (I say "new" as the design likely isn't totally original). But I do see your point re: starting with new parts.

The fore aft carrier a la the Diesel Vanagon makes sense, but IIRC, if mounted to the OEM DV points, it appeared that the passenger side bar would have an awkward angle where it routes around the engine accessories. But......

I'll study Tristar Eric's images. I see he has done it.

Neil.

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:25 am

I'm using the same hydro mounts on my tdi, I bought a kit from bernd jager
Half way down this page http://www.syncro-bernd-jaeger.de/ENGLISH/TDI-Umbau/tdi-umbau.html
I can post a few pictures of them fitted if you like? They fit onto the standard diesel engine carrier bars

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:26 am

I recall a post where someone is making repro diesel carrier bars. I don't know if it was Justin at Greasworks or someone else. Anyhow, I had suggested bare bars for those that wanted to design their own attachments. I think the mods closed the thread because it looked like an advertisement.

The early diesel had a peice of flat stock that bolted from side to side both carrier bars. It was about two inches wide and 1/4 inch thick. So you'd probably be fine. You could gusset both sides of the flat stock to your original bar. 3/16ths should be fine. Your gussets can be 1/8.

I am fortunate to have a fabrication shop near the shop where I can get any scraps I need. I appreciate trying to reuse what you have. And yes, if you grind a filet into your weld area, you can get better penetration with a less powerful welder. mark

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:31 am

Oh and yes the AC compressor was in the way of my stock carrier bar passenger side. Easy to solve though. I cut the rear end off carefully with a grinder. I then cut the bar in half, sleeved it, re indexed it, and welded the bushing end back on in the new orientation. I made a replacement valance bracket that utilized the original 3 bolts and moved it out board. It actually matches the L/S better in comparison to the frame rail. Look close at this picture. Disregard the reinforcement mount to my trailer hitch. mark

Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:24 pm

lloydy: Thanks. I'll check out those images.

Mark: I basically see what you did. Sleeving the carrier was very clever! You added a 4th fastener I see. Thanks for the image.

Seems when there's a will, there's a way, and there's all kinds of variants in regards to engine carriers. i.e.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?...t_dir=DESC

Neil.

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:56 am

Neil, I should have mentioned that when I sleeved it, I sleeved it internally. With a little black paint you can't even tell it was altered. I did add a 4th bolt and backed it up with a thick washer on the backside. You can access the nut through the valance.

Which bar is it?

Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:17 am

rsxsr wrote: Neil, I should have mentioned that when I sleeved it, I sleeved it internally. With a little black paint you can't even tell it was altered. I did add a 4th bolt and backed it up with a thick washer on the backside. You can access the nut through the valance.

Which bar is it?

I figured you sleeved it internally. ;)

RH bar.

Neil.

Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:55 pm

I recall 1" 3/8ths roll bar tubing fit in nicely. The diesel carrier bars are about a 1" 1/2 OD dia from memory.