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Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:53 pm

Ok, so I have not seen a thread specifically outlining the differences of oval floor pans. From what I have seen NOBODY is selling a "correct" floor pan for '56-'59? beetles. Here are some pictures to hopefully clear up any confusion

Gerson's floor pans are correct for split beetles and ovals through '55. The pans that WW sells are correct for '60?-'70 beetles. Gerson also makes these pans but when I talked to him at Bulli Brigade last November these late pans were being sold as oval pans. This is not correct.

When it comes to seat tracks, -'55 used flat seat tracks. In '56 they started using the angled seat tracks and changes the seat frames accordingly.

I have not seen anyone reproducing correct jackpoints for early cars either. I don't have a picture on hand, but I believe these changed in '60.

WW on left, Gerson on right

While Gerson's pan overall is very very nice, it's not perfect. For example, the corners are not flanged where the layers of the tunnel overlap. WW pans are:

-'55 beetles had the early stamping in the rear of the pan. '56+ all had the late rear stamping

Early on right, late on left:

Here is what makes the '56-'59? pan unique. In '56 they changed the rear stamping to later style, but from the seat track forward it kept the "early stamping.

The 'early" stamping was used for cars with pedal assemblies that used a two bolt pedal stop. Here is a picture showing the differences in the front halfs. You can see when they changed to the late front half in '60? they added notches to the rear most long rib in front of the seat track. As well as adding additional stampings up around the pedal assembly:

If anyone has anything to add, feel free. I am not sure the exact year they started the "late" front halfs of the pans. The latest car I had to look at is a '59.

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:21 am

the Klassicfab pan pictured above is our split beetle pan, we also make an early oval pan, I always try to tell people that even though they will work on later oval and later beetles, they are not correct.....if I was clear on all the little details from year to year we could incorporate them into our later pans.......remember we make out our own dies, we stamp our own parts, we do not subcontract anything out like most if not all manufacturers do.....so we thank you for pointing these details out so that we can incorporate these changes into our production runs..... we thank you and people like you for doing this, it is of GREAT help..... :D :D :D

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:31 am

Gerson wrote: the Klassicfab pan pictured above is out split beetle pan, we also make an oval pan.....if I was clear on all the little details from year to year we could incorporate them into our later pans.......remeber we make out our own dies, we stamp our own parts, we do not subcontract anything out like most if not all manufacturers do.....so we thank you for pointing these details out so that we can incorporate these canges into our production runs..... we thank you and people like you for doing this, it is is of GREAT help..... :D :D :D

The Klassicfab pan pictured is not split only. It is also correct for '53-'55 Ovals

The pans you had at bulli brigade that were marked "oval" were not correct for any year oval. They were the same stamping as the WW pans (one bolt pedal stop, extra pressings up front, etc)

'56-'59? Used a mixture of the two. The late rear half, with the early front half

This picture is in your gallery, marked as "oval" floor pan. Again, this is not correct for ANY oval:

Just trying to clear this up! I know I would not be happy if I owned a '56-'57 and bought the "oval" floorpans.

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:38 am

ok, looks like I will have to buy several sets of og late oval pans, early post oval pans and early sixties pans in order to get this correct.....

Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:21 am

Good stuff all, not only does this give us a great uber-detailed look at pan differences, this type of "research" helps reproducers like Gerson dial in the details and create a product that attracts the detail attentive restorer!

Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:02 pm

I'll take the few 'mistakes' on the Gerson pan vs the WW pans any day!

Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:33 pm

bugguts wrote: I'll take the few 'mistakes' on the Gerson pan vs the WW pans any day!

What? If you have a '60+ car why would you buy Klassicfab? WW pans are the exact same price, same thickness, and quality, and include seat tracks, jack points, and rear outriggers. Gerson's do not.

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:03 pm

WW Jack posts and seat tracks are crap. Gerson goes out of his way to make the best product available, and I support him for that. It sounds like you have something against him,so you should buy WW and be happy with your purchase.

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:59 pm

bugguts wrote: WW Jack posts and seat tracks are crap. Gerson goes out of his way to make the best product available, and I support him for that. It sounds like you have something against him,so you should buy WW and be happy with your purchase.

First of all, WW jackpoints and seat tracks are not crap. Maybe you haven't had experience with them lately to see that. You should start a seperate thread showing all of the work you have done supporting your claim. I would love to compare notes.

Second, you think I don't know what Gerson does for this community? I have installed thousands and thousands of dollars worth of his metal on many buses. Without it we would still be using the shitty metal of the past or searching for NOS/dry original parts. I have nothing against Gerson what so ever. I have had lots of interaction with him, never on a bad note. You do not know me, nor do you know my relationship with him or WW.

This is not a nut swinging thread or is it an assault on anyones product, so please refrain from posting unless you have something to add. This thread is all about constructive criticism and I believe Gerson understands that

Gerson wrote: so we thank you for pointing these details out so that we can incorporate these changes into our production runs..... we thank you and people like you for doing this, it is of GREAT help..... :D :D :D

Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:50 am

This is the (hopefully) original floorpan of my '56 Oval. I am at the moment in the process of restoring the car and found this when I took the carpet out. Overall it looks pretty good and perhaps it helps you for judging the correctness of repro parts.

Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:25 am

VWsArent4Hippies wrote: I have not seen anyone reproducing correct jackpoints for early cars either.
VWsArent4Hippies wrote: First of all, WW jackpoints and seat tracks are not crap. Maybe you haven't had experience with them lately to see that. You should start a seperate thread showing all of the work you have done supporting your claim. I would love to compare notes.
So have you got a part number of these incorrect but not crap WW jackpoints?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:22 am

Volumex wrote: VWsArent4Hippies wrote: I have not seen anyone reproducing correct jackpoints for early cars either.
VWsArent4Hippies wrote: First of all, WW jackpoints and seat tracks are not crap. Maybe you haven't had experience with them lately to see that. You should start a seperate thread showing all of the work you have done supporting your claim. I would love to compare notes.
So have you got a part number of these incorrect but not crap WW jackpoints?

I do not have a part #, i'm sure if you call them they would help you out. The last set of WW pans I put in a month or so ago came with bare metal jackpoints. They were very thick and the quality was nice. But again, they are not correct for early cars

Here are some pictures showing the differences. The first one is the early style (not available), and the black one is the late style you get with WW pans.

Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:00 am

I am very interested in this thread as I have a '59 that I will start restoring soon and would like to get pans that are as correct as possible.

As for jack points: I am tempted to remove them altogether so no one ever uses them to jack up the car.

Don

Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:10 pm

If someone is wanting to jack up your car for nefarious purposed, I really doubt they would just happen to have a stock vw jack on them. They would use a bottle jack or other generic jack.

Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:24 pm

What years did the seat track "ramps" go through? Is it a vert only thing?

This is my Oct 55 kabrio, notice small ramps supporting front edge of seat tracks.

Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:35 pm

derluftwagen wrote: What years did the seat track "ramps" go through? Is it a vert only thing?

This is my Oct 55 kabrio, notice small ramps supporting front edge of seat tracks.

Nope, not vert only. Just a early '56 thing. Aug. 55- Dec. 55. They changed to the later style without the "ramp" at chassis 1053294

Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:44 am

Is there already a correct floorpan for a '59? Have the sale problem here.
The only problem i see,is that the drivers side panel isnt correct, the ww right panel can be used and looks the same.

Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:47 am

BartD wrote: Is there already a correct floorpan for a '59? Have the sale problem here.
The only problem i see,is that the drivers side panel isnt correct, the ww right panel can be used and looks the same.

KF makes the correct floor pan for your car. WW does not. The front pressings on the WW pans are for later, 60's cars. You need the provisions for a two bolt pedal stop..

Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:53 am

Yes I do, but on the ww are two pressing that are on the originals and not on the kF pans. I think these are for the gas pedal they are about 2" long. Or do they build the correct one now?

Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:49 am

Informative thread ;

Over time new products are introduced ...!

It seems WWest now list pan halves for ' 56 / '57 Beetles which have a different WW part number to those for ' 58 - ' 70 .
This would indicate a difference in the actual part.

Un fortunately no photo of the ' 56 / ' 57 type.

Does anyone know whether the WW ' 56 / ' 57 pan halves now have the correct pressing in the pedal area ?

( ie 2 bolt pedal stop & without extra dimples etc )